Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

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kblue
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Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

I used so far only chicken rig using the three way swivel with 4 Oz flag bank only for total of 16 hours of permit fishing.
Almost all of 6 distinctive bites got crazy run immediately after bite. I had zero fighting time. 60 LB Main line or 50LB leader got cut off.
I am wondering maybe this crazy initial run has something to do with chicken rig where fish obviously feels 4 oz weight after 6 ft of leader line even with free run mode.

My reason of using chicken rig was I can cut out the weight easily because i am using lighter line to attach the weight.
Also, I know the bait presentation may be better with chicken rig.

I would like to post your thought or experience.

From now on, I want to change my permit rig to fish finder with free run. And I want to see how their initial runs go.

-kblue

Backwoods123
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Backwoods123 »

Isn't a chicken rig 2-4 hooks on the top and the sinker on the bottom?? That's the only chicken rig i know of..... And the setup i use for permit is the basic slide rig... Egg sinker... Bead...swivel.. Leader hook... And some hits are screaming hits and some are just a few ticks of the rod tip

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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

Here are pictures of my rig. you can easily cut off 20LB attaching the weight
chicken rig.png
standard-three-way-rig.jpg
Rigs you describe are fish finder rig
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tears143
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by tears143 »

This is also a chicken rigs, which most people know as a chicken rig for offshore.
Image

Why don't you combine what you have? Use a fish finder rig but instead of using an egg sinker, put a swivel there. Attach to it a lighter line and add the sinker to the end of that line. It'll slide and also can break off if need. A little more hardware though.

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Green Tide
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Green Tide »

Im with backwoods on the chicken rig. I call the other one a 3 way swivel rig. They work well for tommys drop back rig when fished straight down.
Going to a sliding sinker should help you out. The main thing is you are getting bites so you are in the right spot with decent presentation. I like using a circle hook and let them take the slack out then watch the rod load up. Just figure out how that spot is similar at other bridges and go get them. Heavy line is not as embarrassing as loosing fish allot , what gets me is the fish bite on the stuff, even with those huge eyes.
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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

Some people start to call my rig as one hook chicken rig. And I don't think it is correct name neither.
I know the rig you show is correct chicken rig with hi/low hooks.
But name is just name.

Anyway, I don't use egg sinker to make fish finder rig for rocky area. Egg sinker rolls until it stuck between rocks.
I used slider with lighter line attaching the weight but the lighter line get easily tangled with leader line.

Now, you just inspire me something.

What about something like this?
I believe this will not make much tangle with main/leader lines since 2 ft 50LB leader is attached on slider.
And it should give a good presentation as it is elevated. I can cut off the weight easily as well.
revised fish finder rig.jpg
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Green Tide
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Green Tide »

If you are using a 30 hook you must either have some really dinky crabs or not much point sticking through Try using 6 to 80 hooks
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Backwoods123
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Backwoods123 »

Yeah i agree a 3/0 isnt the best hook for a permit especially a big one... A lot of guys on this forum have. Caught tons n tons of permit... So taking there advice will only help you.... Like the rig i use the basic slide rig... It has caught hundrads off permit the rig has never let me down... And the sinker won't roll because I'm not fishing sideways of the current I'm fishing with it..

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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

Thanks guys.
I just confirmed the hooks I used was actually Gamakatsu 6/0 red circle hook not 3/0.
As i didn't spend enough time on permit fishing, hook size wasn't engraved into my brain yet.

So far, my key bridge experience is only limited in CH 5 about 5 different day in past one month.
Bottom Snag is there but not too bad compared to other location I fished.
Also, current was there but was manageable.
The only obvious problems I remember was sea weed, hot sun, mosquito, and gnats.

I probably keep two or three type of rigs depending on the conditions of the bridge.

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Moose
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Moose »

tears143 wrote: Why don't you combine what you have? Use a fish finder rig but instead of using an egg sinker, put a swivel there. Attach to it a lighter line and add the sinker to the end of that line. It'll slide and also can break off if need. A little more hardware though.
this is my go to bottom rig when using heavy weight and trying to hold bottom...it works kinda like a knocker rig (except the weight doesn't slide all the way to the hook) so the bait can actually swim around freely and if you get caught on bottom you only lose the weight and not the whole rig (or fish if you have one on)

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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

agonzalez0 wrote:
tears143 wrote: Why don't you combine what you have? Use a fish finder rig but instead of using an egg sinker, put a swivel there. Attach to it a lighter line and add the sinker to the end of that line. It'll slide and also can break off if need. A little more hardware though.
this is my go to bottom rig when using heavy weight and trying to hold bottom...it works kinda like a knocker rig (except the weight doesn't slide all the way to the hook) so the bait can actually swim around freely and if you get caught on bottom you only lose the weight and not the whole rig (or fish if you have one on)

If you use swivel with lighter line attaching the weight, aren't you get a tangle between lighter line and leader sometimes?
What are typical length of leader line and lighter line?

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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

Thanks.

The whole idea behind my new rig is how easily to cut out the weight when it stuck in piling.

I spoke with one diver who told me he could get easily 100 LB of weight around key bridge piling in an hour of diving.
Most weights he found are stuck in a hole.

I know how hard to cut off 50LB leader.

I built my rig with 2 ft line for weight. I tested it and it worked great.

And I am also ready to catch chicken. :happyfisherman:

The only problem is I have to find the time.

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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Rare »

Maybe its me but re-rigging lead/leader only takes a min or two. Are you really taking longer to put a new sinker on. What I see that takes guys longer to rig is that they're disorganized in their tackle.

No way I can put lite line on my break away bank. I cast with too much force and snaps the line with lead. Leader with bait goes one direction and lead goes the other way.
Image

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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by STRIZ »

I use 10lb test doubled up as line for the bank sinker the last few times and I know I am gambling with it. Was just in the side pocket of the tackle bag and so there you go.

20 or 30 is much better. I mean you got your swivel so tying a new bank on the rig is really just a minute thing.


kblue you are way to much over thinking this whole thing.

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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

I know, I know... It is just my engineer nature...
When I was in Kodiak, AK catching Salmon, I saw old school and new school.
A lot of fishing method came from Norwegian. They used to say Norway or noway.
Old Norwegian students always out fished the other. But sometimes new school won...

Anyway, I found clip-on slider so that I pre-made 6 sets of slider, 80 LB leader, swivel, 20LB leader, 4oz weight
So all I have to do is just to clip onto main line.

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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

Rare wrote: No way I can put lite line on my break away bank. I cast with too much force and snaps the line with lead. Leader with bait goes one direction and lead goes the other way.
Do you cast permit rig with full power? I thought you just tossed it between pylons.

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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Rare »

Depends where I'm at.....
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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

Here are pictures of clip-on slider I found. It is easily attachable/detachable. And contact surface is bigger than swivel slider so that it slide better.
It may work over braid. (I haven't tried it yet.) I pre-built 5 set.

The goal is no tangle, easy weight cut-out.

So I did crimping instead of knotting. I used about 120 LB mono to make line more stiff.

So far, when attached to 60LB mono, bead, swivel and 50 LB 5 ft leader, three lines are always straight without tangle no matter how I shake the rod.
Kblue fish finder rig V2.jpg
20140815_221536.jpg
clip on.jpg
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by PhishingPhanatic »

Yep way too much hardware, no way in hell would I use that rig, no offense.
Crimps and 120 lb leader for permit fishing? No way.
Those fish on the bridges see a lot of googan rigs all day long...the less terminal tackle you can use, the better.

I use 20 lb mono to attach my weight using a break-away setup, and have never had a problem. The only terminal tackle I use are 2 small swivels, a small bead, my weight and a hook.

A lot of people who have caught a LOT of permit from the bridges have given you good advice on this thread, why are you trying to re-invent the wheel?

But, whatever works for you.
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by STRIZ »

Plastic sliding things go poo poo quick on a good cast.
KEEP YOUR HEAD UP HIGH
EVEN WHEN THE NECK IS DIRTY

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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

STRIZ wrote:Plastic sliding things go poo poo quick on a good cast.
Yep, that is my thought as well. I will see how strong it is. I probably only toss it to traffic pylon :mad:

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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

PhishingPhanatic wrote:Yep way too much hardware, no way in hell would I use that rig, no offense.
Crimps and 120 lb leader for permit fishing? No way.
Those fish on the bridges see a lot of googan rigs all day long...the less terminal tackle you can use, the better.

I use 20 lb mono to attach my weight using a break-away setup, and have never had a problem. The only terminal tackle I use are 2 small swivels, a small bead, my weight and a hook.

A lot of people who have caught a LOT of permit from the bridges have given you good advice on this thread, why are you trying to re-invent the wheel?

But, whatever works for you.
No offence at all. :toast:

This is what happened if a fisherman is grounded, not allowed to go fishing.... :cry: :cry: :cry:
120 LB is anchor line. 50LB is leader. It is just me that crimp a lot.

BTW, I tried 2 small swivels, a small bead, my weight and a hook like you said but the rig got tangled quite a few time with 20LB.
What length of 20LB do you use you break-away set up?

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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by PhishingPhanatic »

Not much..a foot or so.
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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

I tried it with 3 ft... and then change it to three-way swivel (less tangled but still get some tangled)
Maybe the whole problem was not the rig but strong sea weed run on CH 5.

Next time I will try 1 ft long,
And now, we are talking :jester: :jester: :jester:

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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Green Tide »

I'm with Black Fin Tuna on this one. I want my bait down low at the bridges.
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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

I am with him too. But real questionis what i am going to do with 5 set i already made?

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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by STRIZ »

In the garbage and call it learning curve
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EVEN WHEN THE NECK IS DIRTY

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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Rare »

I fish with half of these guys & got to say that we each catch & just finding out its the same setup but different setup in how we do it. :toast:
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kblue
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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by kblue »

kblue wrote:I used so far only chicken rig using the three way swivel with 4 Oz flag bank only for total of 16 hours of permit fishing.
Almost all of 6 distinctive bites got crazy run immediately after bite. I had zero fighting time. 60 LB Main line or 50LB leader got cut off.
I am wondering maybe this crazy initial run has something to do with chicken rig where fish obviously feels 4 oz weight after 6 ft of leader line even with free run mode.

My reason of using chicken rig was I can cut out the weight easily because i am using lighter line to attach the weight.
Also, I know the bait presentation may be better with chicken rig.

I would like you to post your thought or experience.

From now on, I want to change my permit rig to fish finder with free run. And I want to see how their initial runs go.

-kblue
If you read original post, I had no problem of getting fish bites but couldn't manage the initial crazy run, which ended up line cut off before even holding rod.
And I sort of assumed the cause is my three-way swivel rig where fish feels the weight.
So I wanted to use fish finder rig that can have similar presentation like three-way swivel rig.
And the requirements are 1) easy breakaway with no tangle, 2) a good presentation, 3) fish doesn't feel the weight.

While agreeing on throwing away my kblue rig into the garbage due to complexity, short breakaway line (suggested by many) pushes me back to the square one, where I started.

It will have poor presentation. My reason is permit is a kind of big pompano. And most productive pompano rig is designed to raise baits above the ground.
(This might be the reason why my three-way swivel got a lot of bites...)
A fish finder rig with 1 ft or less breakaway line along with 4 ~ 5 ft or leader will make the crab sit on ground (or at least not higher than the point where two swivels meet).

Well, someone may say it worked and I am not arguing with it. But I would challenge by saying there may be a different way.
And this challenge may be a mute point overall because landing permit is more critical skill than hooking it. And one fish per day is enough.

Throw me your thoughts.

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Re: Chicken Rig Vs Fish Finder rig for permit

Post by Rare »

I float my crabs/ and ???? with a popping cork to reach my destination point when i see them. They dont waste time hitting it....
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