Gun Violence - MY amendment!

[ringonose]

Last time this topic was being debated, no wait - SINCE the last time it has been debated, there have been M U L T I P L E incidents in the USA where gun violence have caused the deaths of many innocent people. Mass shootings in more schools, churches, streets, shopping malls, and today a few reporters in Virginia shot on live t.v. Normally I would take a bit of a sheepish approach to this subject, but not anymore, and for those of you out there who trumpet the 2nd amendment which was written in 1791 people...WAKE UP times have changed. oK idiots, you are clinging to a law that was made at a time when land owners had to protect themselves against invading foreigners, and they owned some pretty basic weapons. I don't give a rats ass about the OUTDATED second amendment "right" to bear arms, you are all dinosaurs, and the whole thing is making the U.S about as safe as a third world country. Blah blah blah psychiatric evaluations and pre-screening my ass. IT IS NOT GOING TO WORK, and we won't get rid of the violence until we simply ban guns, it's gonna take years, and even longer if people keep insisting on having guns. They don't have a right to own them in England, they don't have a right to own them in Australia, and in Canada the main reason they have gun violence is because they're leaking in from the U.S! More gun related murders take place int he U.S in one month than many of these countries have had in decades...it's pathetic. Anyone still clinging to the insistence of owning a gin and insisting that their "rights" are being violated because of a law that was written three centuries before you were even born can kiss my ass. You're all a bunch of fools. Go ahead, post your witty come backs and ridiculous comments, it's all garbage. In this country, too many people are simply KILLING FELLOW CITIZENS and many of you don't selfishly cling to your "right" to own a gun rather than come to terms with what that "law" is doing to our society. You should maybe stop and think about the entire country's welfare and the direction things are headed tough guys. Get your heads out of your butts and take a look around at what's happening...it's in our culture, in our movies, our video games, etc etc in our daily way of life and it's wrong...even emoticons seem to "desensitize" of this issue...case in point??

[kblue]

More gun related murders take place int he U.S in one month than many of these countries have had in decades

Where did you get this data? I am just saying because I am very surprised...

[PhishingPhanatic]

That's a surefire way to win an argument, coming onto a forum and calling anyone that disagrees with you, an idiot.


I'd suggest moving to England or Australia in your case.

[swordfish]

Sigh... ok, I'll take the bait... The problem with your plan is that laws are made for "LAW ABIDING CITIZENS" not the scumbags you want to ban from having guns in the first place... So please explain, how do you plan on taking guns away from criminals once everyone else has surrendered our legally purchased and owned guns...

We are a GUN nation, this is never going away, and the reason why it is not worse is because "crooks" fear they will get their heads blown off if they pick the wrong guy to shake down... It is quite simple... Look at those areas that outlaw firearms, Chicago for example... This is a tiny window into a "gun ban" society... Their crime rates and gun deaths speak for themselves... The reason it is this way is simply that "law abiding john doe" has NO way to defend themselves...

Also note, if it is not guns then it will be knives, etc... The issue here is not the guns, rather those using them to commit crimes and acts of violence. However, what you must understand and reflect on is the fact that those who want to do harm will do so without guns, and the fact that the ONLY WAY to stop a "bad" guy with a gun is to have a "good" guy with a gun...


Final thought... Next time you are in need of the cops, request one without a gun... end of rant.

-Swordfish

[fishnfool73]

I agree ban them all. I mean the ban on alcohol during prohibition worked great, I heard you couldn't find booze in this country. Also outlawing cocaine and herion has gotten those dangerous drugs off the stree so it will work for guns just as wellt. While we are at it lets ban the 2 biggest killers in the country in automobiles and heath related issues so no more unhealthy foods or cigerettes. We can have a utopia

[gruntking]

im offended by this thread it should be deleted #blacklivesmatter

[STRIZ]

I think you should be stripped your first amendment so we all do not have to read your bs mr ringnose.

And that comes from a guy who for himself hates guns (in the hands of crooks)

[Rare]

STOP IT!!!!! You guys are making sense and that is not right!!! #DonaldTrump14thAmendment

[Thelonereeler]

They'll be coming for the guns soon enough.
Whether they get them or not depends on Patriotic Americans standing up for what is right for once.
"Shall not be infringed" has been infringed to death already.

[lasthope]

I'll speak from two points of view own my law enforcement point of view which is as follows. Pro guns , there have been situations especially here in Florida where trained cwp carrying citizens have assisted LEOs in situations. Guns in the hands of capable rational people is completely ok with me and I believe it's pretty good. A lot of these serial shooters could have been stopped by a citizen lawfully carrying a weapon and being in the place. People should be better screened before being allowed to own and operate a fire arm but I do not believe we should forfeit our right to bare arms. Also so you know banning guns doesn't do jack poop as illegal firearm sales such as ak47s will still continue to enter and be sold to criminals , gangs etc and then what? citizens aren't even offered a fighting chance to protect themselves . Ok makes perfect sense. From a civilian point of view I carry my fire arm with my cwp daily it's always on me I've met some of you on bridges etc guess what I've always been armed. Not once as a civilian have a I drawn my weapon for any reason and nor do I hope I have to but if I'm in a mall and some idiot is gunning people down you best believe that fuckerssss dead.

[ringonose]

knee jerk reaction to what was terrible horrible news last night. no, I don't think anyone who disagrees is an idiot. I do think that the insistence of having guns is something that needs to be looked at. "we are a gun nation"....why do we have to be a gun nation? WHY? Can't it be different? Yesterday, a disgruntled former journalist decided he was going to take action against some former co workers who pissed him off. o.k. So if he didn't have a gun, would they be dead? Is my thinking too simple? big sigh...very sad, very frustrated, tired...sorry.

[ringonose]

im offended by this thread it should be deleted #blacklivesmatter

maybe offending people is the only way to get some change. I'd rather offend people than watch them die senselessly because someone with a gun was pissed off and decided to take action.

[fishnfool73]

im offended by this thread it should be deleted #blacklivesmatter

maybe offending people is the only way to get some change. I'd rather offend people than watch them die senselessly because someone with a gun was pissed off and decided to take action.

If saving lives is your goal you need to start the movement to outlaw cars. They kill far more people senselessly each year than guns could hope to.

[cvstrat]

That's actually where I grew up. That lake their filming is Smith Mountain Lake, where I learned to fish.

I can say for certain, that an extremely high number of people in Bedford County own guns. Hunting is huge there, and the gun culture runs deep. If you haven't spent much time in Virginia, it's hard to comprehend the amount of historical significance guns have played in the lives of those whose heritage goes back many generations in the state. Nobody's here for a history lesson, so I'll spare you.

This is the type of place where you see gun racks in the back of pickup trucks. Many residents had family members who died in the civil war. These types of people own shotguns and rifles for hunting, and maybe a .22 and a revolver for target or varmint shooting. These are not the type of people who conceal carry a glock .45 everywhere, waiting for a chance to defend their families against an active shooter. These are people who feed their families through hunting, a skill that has been passed through the generations.

You don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater here. Obviously the shooter was mentally ill. I'm not sure if you guys have seen it, but he filmed the shooting with his own camera and and posted it online before shooting himself. What I can tell you is that in Roanoke County, the neighboring city, it would be fairly easy to get your hands on a stolen gun. The guy wrote a 23 pager letter about what he was going to do. He put the victims initials on the hollowpoint bullets, and you'll have to watch the video to realize how insane this guy was. Banning guns wouldn't have stopped this guy, and it wouldn't stop murder in general. If you don't believe me, watch the video from the shooters perspective, and take a look at the second video where people get chopped up with knives and machetes when guns aren't available. Ban guns and people still get murdered, just more brutally, and you've stripped people of their right to own a firearm.

Here's a video from the shooter's perspective for anyone who is interested. I'd recommend not watching, but it's up to you.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6f9_1440603403

Here's a video of people getting murdered with knifes and machetes, in the civilized countries where guns are banned. I would also recommend not watching.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=549_1440112009

[lasthope]

That's actually where I grew up. That lake their filming is Smith Mountain Lake, where I learned to fish.

I can say for certain, that an extremely high number of people in Bedford County own guns. Hunting is huge there, and the gun culture runs deep. If you haven't spent much time in Virginia, it's hard to comprehend the amount of historical significance guns have played in the lives of those whose heritage goes back many generations in the state. Nobody's here for a history lesson, so I'll spare you.

This is the type of place where you see gun racks in the back of pickup trucks. Many residents had family members who died in the civil war. These types of people own shotguns and rifles for hunting, and maybe a .22 and a revolver for target or varmint shooting. These are not the type of people who conceal carry a glock .45 everywhere, waiting for a chance to defend their families against an active shooter. These are people who feed their families through hunting, a skill that has been passed through the generations.

You don't want to throw out the baby with the bathwater here. Obviously the shooter was mentally ill. I'm not sure if you guys have seen it, but he filmed the shooting with his own camera and and posted it online before shooting himself. What I can tell you is that in Roanoke County, the neighboring city, it would be fairly easy to get your hands on a stolen gun. The guy wrote a 23 pager letter about what he was going to do. He put the victims initials on the hollowpoint bullets, and you'll have to watch the video to realize how insane this guy was. Banning guns wouldn't have stopped this guy, and it wouldn't stop murder in general. If you don't believe me, watch the video from the shooters perspective, and take a look at the second video where people get chopped up with knives and machetes when guns aren't available. Ban guns and people still get murdered, just more brutally, and you've stripped people of their right to own a firearm.

Here's a video from the shooter's perspective for anyone who is interested. I'd recommend not watching, but it's up to you.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6f9_1440603403

Here's a video of people getting murdered with knifes and machetes, in the civilized countries where guns are banned. I would also recommend not watching.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=549_1440112009

Highly accurate thank you for pointing out the fact that he was mentally ill.

[swordfish]

im offended by this thread it should be deleted #blacklivesmatter

maybe offending people is the only way to get some change. I'd rather offend people than watch them die senselessly because someone with a gun was pissed off and decided to take action.

If saving lives is your goal you need to start the movement to outlaw cars. They kill far more people senselessly each year than guns could hope to.

While we are at it why don't we outlaw drinking and driving... Oh wait....

Oh so right! Preach brother!

-Swordfish

[DragonFire]

I was going to give a long winded reply and send him back to his rock But I forgot... debates like this with people like "Ringnose" are
Useless.... He will never see our point of view... no matter if we see his......No matter how many Sats or common sense views are listed for him...

Nooooo he will never change... but listen ringnose ..... do you actually believe that anything now is going to change our Gun rights???
The Sandy hook shooting was your golden goose and what happen??? the American people saw thru all the hogwash of people like yourself..
and realize that NO LAWS would've stop that monster on that day.... and please why are these two lives worth more then the little girl who was doing
her homework and caught a bullet.... and the little boy sitting on his doorstep and also was unlucky to live in a area where Crime controls everything..
Those were true stories that actually happen in a state with the toughest gun laws in the nation.... yet they led in Murders almost year after year..

Again this was a sad story..... but you can't stop crazy .... here are three steps where your energy might be better spend...
1> Confront Gang Violence!!!!
2> Confront Mental Health Issues...
3> Media has to play a better role then just making the killer look like a rock star, for other
copycats.... also stop playing the race card game and deciding what lives matter...

I can't even imagine what we would be going thru right now, if the shooter was white.... people
shot were black and he use a AR15 .... we might be looking at another Ammo scare...

Look even wally world has said NO MORE ARs or semi auto> Evil weapons.... for now on only
hunting firearms.... hmmmmmm I have to get back to you on that one...

[fishnfool73]

I was going to give a long winded reply and send him back to his rock But I forgot... debates like this with people like "Ringnose" are
Useless.... He will never see our point of view... no matter if we see his......No matter how many Sats or common sense views are listed for him...

Nooooo he will never change... but listen ringnose ..... do you actually believe that anything now is going to change our Gun rights???
The Sandy hook shooting was your golden goose and what happen??? the American people saw thru all the hogwash of people like yourself..
and realize that NO LAWS would've stop that monster on that day.... and please why are these two lives worth more then the little girl who was doing
her homework and caught a bullet.... and the little boy sitting on his doorstep and also was unlucky to live in a area where Crime controls everything..
Those were true stories that actually happen in a state with the toughest gun laws in the nation.... yet they led in Murders almost year after year..

Again this was a sad story..... but you can't stop crazy .... here are three steps where your energy might be better spend...
1> Confront Gang Violence!!!!
2> Confront Mental Health Issues...
3> Media has to play a better role then just making the killer look like a rock star, for other
copycats.... also stop playing the race card game and deciding what lives matter...

I can't even imagine what we would be going thru right now, if the shooter was white.... people
shot were black and he use a AR15 .... we might be looking at another Ammo scare...

Look even wally world has said NO MORE ARs or semi auto> Evil weapons.... for now on only
hunting firearms.... hmmmmmm I have to get back to you on that one...

A JETTYPARK debate without mention of in the real world or sheepie ? I for one am disappointed in you jarhead. Don't let it happen again cupcake.

[ringonose]

Hey Dragonfire, I really appreciate your response, and you make sense. I"m not an ingoramous when it comes to this topic, I"m just a very frustrated person because for me everything changed once I had my first son. Yeah I knew my post with it's extreme one sided rants would garner some seriously negative feedback. And yes I know I know, there are too many lunatics out there with guns and they have no business having guns. Yeah I get it. So I'll say this: While guns are "A" problem, they certainly aren't THE only problem. While they make mass murders more accessible to the average lunatic, they are most certainly NOT the only way lunatics can mass murder. In the same way, lunatic mass murders are not the only ones causing deaths with guns or other means. And by the way, YES I totally agree with you on the point about gang violence too. thank you. cheers. (still grumbling inside, though...not anyone's fault...just bugs me, the whole thing bugs me). big sigh...

[crashmister]

Australia did it 1996 after a mass shooting in Tazmania killed 35 people. Gov implemented a mandatory buyback of semi automatic weapons. Suicide rate plummeted and they have not had a mass shooting since. The overall effect on the murder rate was only marginal, but significant. Just sayin

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk ... -massacre/

[BoatlessFisherman]

And so Crash = crashes in

[DragonFire]

Holy Crap> this thread bought out the big guns... Hello Crash Why is it that everybody wants to throw Australia gun law down our throats... Obama did the same thing at the
church... instead of being there for the families and grieving with them.. he chose to "Again" not let a "Sad situation" go to waste by injecting his view on Gun BAN laws..

First off> like it has been stated many time before, Sats show that crime has gone down... Murder has gone down... Mass shooting is rare in itself, but when it does happen every gun
grabber out there come out and harps the SOS...

oh and when talking about Australia lets not forget they don't have a "Bill of Rights" ...in other words they can do anything that the person in charge wants to do at that time..

Like I have also said plenty of times> why is the matter of death more important then the death itself???... Sats prove that there are many other ways out there for a person to die
each day...and they overshadow gun deaths by a lot!!!> But lets not look at those Sats...

Lets throw out the 2A.... where does it stop??....Let's be honest... the gun grabbers main goal is to have a Total Gun Ban...To control anything that isn't PC with them...
And if you are going to talk about Down under Fantasy land.... remember we live in the "Real World" and Americans aren't that easy to BS with all this mumbo jumbo
you Gun Grabber love to puke out...

American Doesn't need input from other countries..... and if any gun Grabber actually had some common sense they would realize that Australian-style gun ban would be Impractical
in the United States...Numbers don't lie...Do yourself a favor and go see what down under gun ban actually did... not these mumbo jumbo studies...that don't hold much water..
look at the paper trail and most of those studies lead back to the top dogs down under...

I already stated what we should try to do.... but you have to remember "Evil will always be among us" and bad people will always do bad things with guns..and trying to take
guns away from Law-abiding citizens... isn't the place to start...

[ringonose]

The ironic part is I was fishing with a few buddies on the bridges in the Keys and my friend had a gun with him the whole time, says he needs it when he does over night bridge fishing due to the crazies. Did I feel safer? I can't answer that. Here's a quote from The Edge (U2) "It's so surprising to people who come from Europe and anyone who's come from Ireland that in the U.S. guns are so available," says the Edge. "It has always mystified us.". Since I am originally from in Canada and spend part of the year there (yeah yeah yeah I know, go ahead people, tell me to move back there and don't come back if I hate guns so much, etc yeah yeah, nothing original, thank you!) I understand that point of view. U.S culture is different when it comes to guns. Most of the gun problems in Toronto are from gang related incidents, the occasional nutjob, and then some solo murderers. But guns are ILLEGAL in Canada. MOst of the guns in Canada are leaking in from the U.S over the border. Gun violence % wise (per capita) is significantly lower in Canada (AND England), and highest in cities near the U.S border. In Canada people did not grow up with guns. You wouldn't see guns unless they were up north in the boonies hunting or you saw a cop carrying one. So here I go again, I'm gonna say it and people are gonna lambaste me AGAIN which is o.k. But isn't the second amendment which was adopted in 1791 is a bit outdated? The Second Amendment was based (partially) on the right to keep and bear arms in English common-law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Sir William Blackstone described this right as "an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state". It was a MUCH different world back then, people needed to protect their lands from invaders in a developing America. They also didn't have the same weapons back then. They still had lunatics though, nothing new there, and the wild west would attest to that right? So now many gun owners are crying foul because they're "used to owning guns" and don't want the government infringing on their rights. It was the government who gave those rights to begin with, remember All I am doing is pointing out another side to the gun debate, much to the chagrin of many gun owners (who have every right to disagree and call me names and tell me to go back to Canada and smoke a peace pipe and blah blah blah), there is a large contingency of people who don't care how gun owners feel, there are victims who want change and feel that at least some sort of legislature should be passed to stop what is clearly getting out of hand. Maybe it's a waste of time. But yeah starting with HEAVY screening processes as well as NOT giving the nutjobs much press is a start. The move onto gangs. How about this: if you're a known member of a gang (cops have databases) then you lose the right to a gun. NO ONE wants to lose their individual rights. So why not punish those who abuse them?????????

[swordfish]

The ironic part is I was fishing with a few buddies on the bridges in the Keys and my friend had a gun with him the whole time, says he needs it when he does over night bridge fishing due to the crazies. Did I feel safer? I can't answer that. Here's a quote from The Edge (U2) "It's so surprising to people who come from Europe and anyone who's come from Ireland that in the U.S. guns are so available," says the Edge. "It has always mystified us.". Since I am originally from in Canada and spend part of the year there (yeah yeah yeah I know, go ahead people, tell me to move back there and don't come back if I hate guns so much, etc yeah yeah, nothing original, thank you!) I understand that point of view. U.S culture is different when it comes to guns. Most of the gun problems in Toronto are from gang related incidents, the occasional nutjob, and then some solo murderers. But guns are ILLEGAL in Canada. MOst of the guns in Canada are leaking in from the U.S over the border. Gun violence % wise (per capita) is significantly lower in Canada (AND England), and highest in cities near the U.S border. In Canada people did not grow up with guns. You wouldn't see guns unless they were up north in the boonies hunting or you saw a cop carrying one. So here I go again, I'm gonna say it and people are gonna lambaste me AGAIN which is o.k. But isn't the second amendment which was adopted in 1791 is a bit outdated? The Second Amendment was based (partially) on the right to keep and bear arms in English common-law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Sir William Blackstone described this right as "an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state". It was a MUCH different world back then, people needed to protect their lands from invaders in a developing America. They also didn't have the same weapons back then. They still had lunatics though, nothing new there, and the wild west would attest to that right? So now many gun owners are crying foul because they're "used to owning guns" and don't want the government infringing on their rights. It was the government who gave those rights to begin with, remember All I am doing is pointing out another side to the gun debate, much to the chagrin of many gun owners (who have every right to disagree and call me names and tell me to go back to Canada and smoke a peace pipe and blah blah blah), there is a large contingency of people who don't care how gun owners feel, there are victims who want change and feel that at least some sort of legislature should be passed to stop what is clearly getting out of hand. Maybe it's a waste of time. But yeah starting with HEAVY screening processes as well as NOT giving the nutjobs much press is a start. The move onto gangs. How about this: if you're a known member of a gang (cops have databases) then you lose the right to a gun. NO ONE wants to lose their individual rights. So why not punish those who abuse them?????????

You are missing the point though Ringonose,
Laws are only effective when they are followed and who follows them? LAW ABIDING CITIZENS. Therefore anything you can brew will be for them and them only, which are not the group of people you are targeting. Criminals have no regard for the rules... How do you stop criminals?

-Swordfish

[Miami_Chris]

Do you guys think it's ok to have insane gun collections? No reason for anyone to have 10 tricked out rifles that were designed for combat sitting in their closet. How do you think lots of these guns get onto the streets? They are stolen from law abiding citizens who have no practical reason for having such a fire arm.

I am not for banning guns at all, especially in rural areas, but the laws do need some adjusting. I also don't get how you guys can say gun crimes wouldn't really go down with the ban of guns. They wouldn't go down right away due to Amount of illegal guns on the street, but say, 20 years from now, it's hard to deny that those numbers would drop dramatically.

Until then, keep stock piling your assault rifles for Armageddon ya crazy bastards.

[fishnfool73]

I also don't get how you guys can say gun crimes wouldn't really go down with the ban of guns. They wouldn't go down right away due to Amount of illegal guns on the street, but say, 20 years from now, it's hard to deny that those numbers would drop dramatically.

Until then, keep stock piling your assault rifles for Armageddon ya crazy bastards.[/quote]

Really ? So by making guns illegal 20 years from now there will be less illegal guns on the street ... hmmm then how do all the illegal narcotics and illegal aliens pour into this country daily ? Tougher gun laws do nothing but making it tougher for law abiding citizens to get them, won't stop illegal guns from being smuggled into the country as they already are. What right does anyone have to own 10 ARs ? Why do yo need 20 rods and reels ? Because fishing is your thing as gun collecting is theirs. Giving the goverment the power and precident to alter the Constitution regarding the big 10 is a slippery slope indeed.

[Miami_Chris]

You can't compare fishing tackle to firearms. That's a silly analogy, guns kill people, fishing tackle doesn't.I do agree that messing around with the constitutional rights is a slippery slope, but as time goes on, things need altering to the modern times. I am also willing to bet a large number of guns used by coyotes and drug cartels originated in the USA (If they can be tracked). Just like they take money and drugs back and forth through the borders, they do the same with guns. Maybe it's not fair to the law abiding citizens that enjoy guns as a hobby, but it's also not fair to the young kid who got shot playing outside during a shooting in the hood. It is way too damn easy to get a gun in the United States.

[fishnfool73]

You can't compare fishing tackle to firearms. That's a silly analogy, guns kill people, fishing tackle doesn't.I do agree that messing around with the constitutional rights is a slippery slope, but as time goes on, things need altering to the modern times. I am also willing to bet a large number of guns used by coyotes and drug cartels originated in the USA (If they can be tracked). Just like they take money and drugs back and forth through the borders, they do the same with guns. Maybe it's not fair to the law abiding citizens that enjoy guns as a hobby, but it's also not fair to the young kid who got shot playing outside during a shooting in the hood. It is way too damn easy to get a gun in the United States.

I can compare anything to whatever to prove the point that someones hobby is theirs . Again cars kill more people than guns ban them as well. So your point is to prevent people who obtain guns illegally you will make it tougher on those that get guns legally ? Makes perfect sense to me

[ringonose]

I also don't get how you guys can say gun crimes wouldn't really go down with the ban of guns. They wouldn't go down right away due to Amount of illegal guns on the street, but say, 20 years from now, it's hard to deny that those numbers would drop dramatically.

Until then, keep stock piling your assault rifles for Armageddon ya crazy bastards.

Really ? So by making guns illegal 20 years from now there will be less illegal guns on the street ... hmmm then how do all the illegal narcotics and illegal aliens pour into this country daily ? Tougher gun laws do nothing but making it tougher for law abiding citizens to get them, won't stop illegal guns from being smuggled into the country as they already are. What right does anyone have to own 10 ARs ? Why do yo need 20 rods and reels ? Because fishing is your thing as gun collecting is theirs. Giving the goverment the power and precident to alter the Constitution regarding the big 10 is a slippery slope indeed.[/quote]

He's just saying that it would take at least a generation, I'd say more than 20 years, more like about 90. Eventually, the people who cried foul over losing their gun rights would be gone and the new generation would be in the fold and see guns not as a right but more as a threat, a WEAPON which is what they are. THEN maybe you can slowly edge the 2nd amendment back in with different stipulations. Don't forget, the government gave the right to bear arms to the general public, it wasn't a born God given freedom like breathing air.

[fishnfool73]

Ok now it makes even less sense.People won't just forget the second amendment. On a side note please show me where in the Bible God gave us the right to breath air. I do see your point maybe if Cain couldn't have bought that AK then Abel would not have been murdered.