Gun Violence - MY amendment!

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kblue
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by kblue »

I just saw CNN video interviewing Ben Carson answering about Syrian refugees...
He strongly disagreed US taking any of those refugees into US soil...And at the end, he said if he were ISIS and he would know US taking 100,000 refugees, then he would infiltrate with my people(ISIS soldiers)...

I totally agreed with him. And I just thought about 1000 of ISIS solider hiding in refugees... they get guns from Walmart or street...This would be more devastating than Nuke attack...

Those poor Syrians are really screwed up by ISIS.

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DragonFire
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by DragonFire »

Crashmister> Again you are trying to twist the truth around.... just like you stated that you could hop from state to state and buy up guns at gun shows.. :roll:
There are already "LAWS" in the book that each state is suppose to follow when it come to sales at gun shows....If someone came up with a common sense law
to govern Private sales... I would jump on board... but the law that they wanted to put in place was BS and that's why the NRA fought it tooth and nail..
and like I have said many times... I really don't care what the NRA does... but lets also be honest that without them... a lot of people rights would've been
Crushed by the Government agenda... and even YOU can't deny that...

Here's another statement you also made>
My point is simple. Most of what the NRA and its mouth pieces have spouted for years is simply BS!


Well hell bells I can make the same claim when it comes to Gun grabbing Politician/Media ..... what comes out of their pie holes as been
BS for Yearsssss.... lies are thrown out everyday about Guns and Gun Stats...

Pssssssssss Obama had a Golden goose with the Sandy hook shooting, and along with his sheep they were going to bring about New gun laws..
and it never happen... Most Dem wont even touch the subject....and there's a Main reason why and you don't seem to not get it...

Americans don't want any new gun laws, until the government/states start enforcing the ones in the books already.... Why is that so hard to understand :scratch:

And you are right the point is simple> enforce the laws in the books/Work across state line when it comes to Mental issue and if a state wants to go at it along and
do whatever they feel like (gun laws) .... Government money is taken away until they start enforcing Fed Laws...

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DragonFire
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by DragonFire »

KBlue> Have you notice how many "Young Men" are made up of refugees wanting to cross into other counties... I say keep anybody that is fit to
fight over there and train them to fight Isis instead of running away..

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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by crashmister »

you keep talking about "laws on the books" so cite them! You know they're there, find me a federal law that prohibits the private sale of firearms, then find me one that covers shows. I'm saying they don't exist, you say they do. Show me!
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DragonFire
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by DragonFire »

CrashMister> Now you just want to make "New Laws" ...Again its the SOS with you......I never once talk about laws against "Private sales" at gun show... We both
know they don't exist... and honestly I thought you were a lot smarter then this war of words and back and forth BS......

The laws I stated at gun shows were the ONES you were willing to break, when you said you could drive thru out this nation of ours to different gun shows and buy
a truck load of firearms... I called YOU out on it, by staying you were breaking the law... but again you dodge that question...Why HELL anybody can get a chit load of guns
if they are willing to break the laws on the BOOKS....hint hint... :roll:

But since you seen to have trouble reading and keeping up with your own lies and BS.... I will state this again for you... Any STATE that has a Gun show... in a private sale the person
buying has to live in that state and show ID..... then we have states that don't allow Private gun sales on property (gun show being held) unless you belong to the show...
Even here at our Fairgrounds if they catch you selling a firearm in the parking lot you will have to answer to LEO for it....

and since you keep harping about Gun shows :nopity: the laws on how to sell and buy are there... like the one you would've been breaking.... Gun sellers are also suppose to be
looking out for people they believe are doing straw purchase and there's a law on the book about that... There you go I stated a few laws that gun show have, now if YOU has the buyer
choose to break the law/ and the seller agrees to sell and also break the LAWS....

Then AGAIN> NO NEW LAWS WILL WORK, WHEN PEOPLE KEEP BREAKING THEM!!! ... now how hard is that to understand..

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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by crashmister »

And once again you fail to cite the law im violating. Because there is no law in 33 states which is exactly what I said. I also said I can go to any of those states and legally buy a gun from a show, which I can.

The problem here is you refuse to believe this scam exists. It's only gotten larger over the years.

But once again I'm full of it because you can't cite a law.

Simply put no gun should be sold in the U.S. Without registration and background checks regardless of the circumstances. It also bears mention, while
We're discussing this, 10 more kids are dead in Oregon because FREEDUMB!
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DragonFire
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by DragonFire »

BULLCHIT!!! the only way you can jump from state to state and buy guns is to break the law... I stated the LAW a few dozen times already for you but you seem
too hardheaded to listen.... YOU HAVE TO LIVE IN THAT STATE!!! to be able to buy from a private seller without a background check... And again that's a PRIVATE seller
everybody else at the show... and YOU have to file and get a background check.... Unless you are buying a long gun in most states like Florida... but any handgun you
buy at most show from a vendor YOU will have to go thru the waiting period, which in turn is how they are suppose to check your background...

Listen Crash... You might fool some other folks here, but I have done my homework on this and have work gun shows before...In fact I know a handful of vendor (that build guns) and
I hear this from the horse mouth.... Not from whatever BS site you seem to be lurking in..... please quit try to pass your BS here... YOU know the laws as well as I do.... I'll state it again
since you seem to be hard of hearing....

IF YOU DON"T LIVE IN THE FREAKING STATE!!! that is having the gun show.... YOU can't buy from a FREAKING private seller... THATS THE LAW ACROSS THE NATION!!
and if you are buying then YOU SIR are BREAKING THE LAW IN PLACE and the SELLER also BREAKING THAT STATE LAW!!!...

Can YOU get around this law sure you can if you have certain license and are a GUN SELLER>>>>..... but you telling me that someone who spends that much money to get those license
and owns a shop is going to turn around and sell his guns on the corner.... GIVE ME A $@!# break already with your BS!!! YOU SIR ARE WRONG!!!!

And that's the problem with people that believe they KNOW ITALL.... in fact I dare anyone here to go to another state and try to buy a gun from a private seller at a gun show...
if he does sell to YOU... then he is breaking the LAW... and guess what SO ARE YOU...

So again what are NEW laws going to do when you have people like Crash stating that you can break the ones on the books... :roll:

and that last statement you put up about Oregon was also total BS!!! really ten kids dead because of our gun laws.... good lord man how @#$$#@ are you
I guess you are on the same BS boat as Obama.... claiming that states with the most gun laws have less shooting.... hmmmmmmmm hell I'll just list one city "Chicago"
google how many gun death and shooting they had just this year..... here one in just two weekends they had over 100 shooting victims .... but you or your sheep master
Obama don't say a peep about that...

And really the bottom line when it come to deaths is human lives..... why does shooting victims mean more to you then other young people killed by other means that
stomp gun shooting....hmmmmmmmm..... i'll tell you why because it they don't fit your agenda of GUN CONTROL.... NO NO.... lets not talk about those deaths..
drug deaths blow pass gun deaths.... and they have all kinds of laws against drugs yet they still kill young folks by the 1000s.... but that doesn't matter to you... NO NO
you want to whine and bit#h about gun/shooting... :roll:

Here one why is it that all these shooting only take place in Gun Free zones????..... OH by way the guards at the Oregon school... even they weren't allowed to carry a firearm... :mad: WT$@#

Getting back to the truth.... and you keep whining about a law...psssss look it up yourself since you knowitall... but here it is in a nutshell when it comes to Gun shows
Federal law prohibits private individuals from selling a firearm to a resident of another state, or to someone they know, or have reason to believe, is prohibited from owning a firearm.
Again that's a FEDERAL law....

Look up> FEDERAL GUN laws in the United States!! again the Magic word is "FEDRAL".... that should make your head spin for awhile... :nopity:

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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by crashmister »

While the bold text does make it look very official, the federal law you're quoting was repealed along with many others in the firearm owners protection act of 1994. NRA always leaves that part out.

Section 18 U.S. Code Chapter 44-firearms. In SS-926 (Sub Section)
There is a very similar reg for licensed dealers but not for private sales. Interstate purchase buy private citizens who can legally purchase a firearm is also legal. Provided you can meet the sales requirements of the state in which you're buying. There are no state requirements on private sales in 33 U.S. States.

The other part of the hole is while you're correct no one can knowingly sell to an "illegal buyer", the 94 act also killed all record requirements for private sales.. So no
One knows who you sold to regardless.

SS 926 A, very clearly says as long as you can legally buy a firearm in your home state you can legally buy and transport from another state both firearms and ammunition. Or did you think everyone who attended the NRA's annual show this year, lived in Kentucky?

From a "federal law" perspective most gun show regulation is left to the states. Even the regulations on the books are reasonably simple to get around.
But you won't see the NRA convention in Illinois any time soon. You still need an IL- FOID card (firearm owner identification card) to legally buy anything that goes bang!
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StoneJackBaller
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by StoneJackBaller »

FYI Chicago/ Illinois now has CCW on the books.

Also I thought a private seller selling to someon who is not legally able to own a gun was called a straw sale and already illegal.
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by crashmister »

Yes they do. For over a year now. They've issued close to half a million so far and yes, Chicago is included as its a state CCW.

And yes in some states straw sales are illegal but the problem is enforcement. There are no federal requirements on record keeping for private sales. Or purchases for that matter. But even where records are required on a state level like in California you still get a gun or 1200 and 6.5 tons of ammo that slips through the cracks.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-m ... story.html

Nobody has or had a frigging clue how, when, or where he got em. 1200 undocumented gun purchases buy the same guy, which also means there are 1200 undocumented gun sales as well. Not to mention 6.5 tons of ammo bought and sold under the same
Circumstances. Can't help but wonder what he was planning.
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ringonose
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by ringonose »

Looks like DragonFire hasn't done his homework like he says he has, and HE is actually the one who twists facts to suit his point. Just like he says he'll never change the minds of those who are for banning firearms or at least clamping down heavily on gun laws, it's obvious no one will ever change his mind about this issue that is still a growing issue as we speak, and the victims of the most recent shooting in Oregon puts yet another exclamation on the issue. More people dead because someone decided to use a gin that was just too easily accessible to them, and shoot a bunch of innocent people. Oh yeah, Dragon Fire will say "they're not filtering ans screening properly, blah blah blah" or whatever crap he spews about how there is no issue, there is no problem with guns, it's because of people. You know what? You're NEVER going to fix people, there will always be nutcases out there, and surprise surprise - nutcases are not stupid, in fact some of them are quite above average intelligence, so they know how to get past any obstacles to obtain firearms. You cannot eliminate the evil that will find ways to obtain a gun, who will then use that gun to do horrible things. But if you simply eliminate the weapon, you will drastically decrease the % of incidents and innocent people being killed at the other en of a gun. Boo hoo to those who don't want their right to own a firearm taken away from them. Too bad, the world is a different place than when that law was written, and it's not getting any better. Obviously, this isn't something that can happen over night. You're not going to be able to eliminate guns in the U.S, there are way too many of them out there and they've been a part of the American way of life for way too long. But heck something has to be done and be done ASAP, this crap is just getting way out of control. Dragon Fire I'm sure you're a cool cat, but honestly, no amount of owning a gun is going to make me feel that my kid is safe out there when going to school or to a movie or to a mall or wherever My owning a gun when evil comes knocking as you say isn't going to change squat, when my kid is out there too young to be carrying, well, who's gonna help him, or help YOUR kids or any one else's kids or teens? Something has got to be done, and I just don't see a solution. :?
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DragonFire
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by DragonFire »

Ringnose> Quit riding Crashmister rear .... you aren't going to be able to breath, if you go too far up there :mrgreen: Now as far as you owning a gun... Hey that's up to you my friend, I just
hope that you never run into a event that will change your life forever...
Facts tell it all> We now live in a Violent time, LEO can't stop Violent crimes, at best if you are able to dial 911 you will have a wait time before anybody shows up... I don't know about some of you
but I rather trust in myself then lay and pray the bad things away... and as far as kids go>>> Who going to help him when he walks across the street and a DUI driver runs him over????? there's
a dozen other ways kids die every year that outnumber Mass shooting... the Smartest thing you said in your whole rant was
> You don't see a solution<.... ...

Crashmister> As far as the 33 states selling across a table to anybody who walks into a show> Its too late right now and ringnose gave me a nose bleed, so I will have to get back to you on
that one.... and get back to you :thumright:

Listen I stated a long time ago that I wasn't in favor of the way Private sales at gun shows were handled... but the law they wanted to pass against it was BS ... I don't remember everything
they wanted but the left kept adding chit to the list.. and the NRA fought it tooth and nails...

The sad part is that its pretty simple to fix IMO, but everybody keeps yelling and nobody wants anything with common sense... The left wants too much and the right doesn't want to give an inch..
Here's my take on Private gun sales> All semi-auto firearm will have to have an a background check (modern firearms) If the buyer and seller agree on a price, then the gun show will have
a booth setup for Paper work on background checks (a local license dealer can do this) if its a handgun that both the seller and buyer pay for the transfer Fee.... the hand gun will be held
by the local dealer till the wait time is over... (it ranges from state to state) The seller will also put down $50 deposit, the dealer will hold on to that and if the exchange doesn't happen, then
the buyer can pick up his firearm at the dealers and also get the $50 for his trouble..... and as far a bolt action/black power and antique firearm... the seller can sell them without any paperwork
IMO..... I know that's crazy talk LOL...

CrashMister> Since you keep getting on me about laws.... Name a New or old law that would've stop the Sandy hook shooter and the Oregon shooter???? save your breath... there isn't any.

Bottomline> There is no gun control law that will stop a evil person from killing innocents> NONE!!! why you ask, well because if he doesn't have a record on file, then he can walk right into
a dealers gun shop and walk right out with one....

And why is it when we have a Mass shooting everybody starts yelling about "Gun control" ??????? Do you guy realize how many people die a year from gun related deaths?? and the Windy
city is leading the pack and it has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation.....but I don't hear a peep from you guys about those deaths :roll:

Passing New guns laws isn't going to do a damn thing "NOTHING"..... and I get sick and tired of hearing that SOS> Well something is better then nothing< :mad: how much of @#$ answer is
that? I will agree on the Private sales> You also seem to forget that both the Sandy hook shooter and Oregon shooter didn't get their firearms from Private seller.... they were bought from license
dealers..

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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by crashmister »

Well again, youre not even close. Manchin-Toomey which failed in 2013, 54 to 46 had 9 amendments to the existing federal gun registration laws. None of which mattered because congress couldn't get passed the universal background checks which were the basis of the original amendment. Congress never saw it in any form as it died in the senate. Killer is you're parroting the NRA's exact argument and it's a flat out lie. There were no amendments anywhere creating or even advocating a national gun registry database. The first amendment under Manchin-Toomey was universal background checks for all gun sales. It's death killed the rest.

Look. It's real simple. Sooner or later conservatives are going to loose all 3 houses. And it's looking more and more like it's gonna be sooner with poll numbers right now. Apparently you're unaware there bills introduced almost monthly banning or restricting some gun or another. This is just the 112th congress.

https://www.gunowners.org/112bills.htm

So how do you think these would do in a liberal house and senate? With a president who can't wait to sign em. Dem's even tried reviving the assault weapons ban. On a liberal Capitol Hill that could have easily passed. Keep stonewalling and you're very likely to find out just how easy in the next few years.
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Moose
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by Moose »

not sure the validity of this, but i read that there hasnt been a school shooting in Isreal since they made it mandatory for teachers to be armed....

.....sandy hook.....colombine.....oregon....virginia tech...etx etx etx...could have been prevented all together or resolved with far less lives being lost if we just armed professors.....

gun free zone signs dont keep bad guys with guns away.....

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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by ringonose »

Now HOLD ON ONE SECOND HERE, sorry Moose, I am not trying to center you out but all sorts of you out there are contradicting yourselves. Many of you say that we need heavier screening on initial gun purchases so that crazy people don't get guns. Well, if these mass shooting nutjobs are indeed nutjobs, then do you really and honestly and truly think that knowledge of a schoolteacher having a gun is going to stop them? The one terrorist shooter in Canada who tried to storm the House Of Parliament knew that everyone was armed, but he stormed in anyways! The reason why in Israel the school shootings went down is because the shooters there are acting on a totally different agenda (not to say there aren't any nutjobs at work there as well), BUT, there ARE indeed more people with political agendas overseas and in the Middle East. Teenagers sit around and discuss heavier political topics than the so called "experts" on many of our panel news headquarters here. It's much different in the U.S when it comes to these mass shootings. Many of these shooters in the U.S are from all walks of life, lower class, middle class, upper class, they have decent enough lives in terms of provisions (as in they're not street bums) many of them have homes and enough to eat and a home and bed to sleep at night. If they have any sort of political agenda they're certainly not sparing their fellow good white Christian Americans. They're just crazy bored idiots doing what they do at random, for whatever reason the voice inside their head tells them. Mommy and Daddy haven't given them enough attention, or they're just not happy because (in my opinion) the younger generation are a bunch of spoiled brats who can't get much done on their own to begin with (again another rant alltogether). So, one cannot really compare Israel's schoolteacher's having guns as being effective in this case, just as much as one cannot compare a country like Canada to the U.S (again, totally different population base). I Do agree, however, with comparing the UK to the U.S, for many reasons which I've already gotten into before, much to the chagrin of Dragonfire.
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by crashmister »

Yeah, that was another gem by faux noise. Fact is no teachers in Isreal carry guns in class, and never have. For the better part of 4 decades now every school in Isreal has had armed anti terrorist experts protecting said school from terror attacks.

Owning a gun in Isreal isn't difficult. Getting a CCW is!

Just another BS statistic courtesy of faux and the NRA.

Just like how 40% of all gun purchases are private unregistered sales. Completely bogus statistic that pro ban groups have been quoting for a decade. The number is based on a phone survey done by Pew Research. Even they admit it wasn't a valid survey. Fact is they have no clue what percentage of sales are private except in states where registration is required.

We also don't realize how many laws have been repealed or expired over the last 30 years. The Brady Bill alone was worth billions in assault weapon markets and sub markets. At the end of the day it came down to, "Who cares who dies, gun makers are gonna make a fortune." And that's really all that matters.
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by Rare »

Texas university students in dildo protest over gun law :safe:

http://college.usatoday.com/2015/10/12/ ... -students/
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Re: Gun Violence - MY amendment!

Post by ringonose »

O.K Dragonfire here is a different solution regarding gun violence, and it doesn't come down to the government doing something or banning guns or screening or anything like that. It actually comes down to the general population. PLEASE READ this if you are FOR guns and do not want toe government to intervene and start putting restrictions on gun rights. http://mystudentapt.com/2015/10/06/ther ... t-like-it/
..."and the meek shall inherit the earth...."

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