Are we really better off??

[al305]

Just food for thought....

What you see here is pretty much what goes on everyday in W. DC. [/quote]

No Doubt...

[fishnfool73]

Lol no wonder nothing changes

[crashmister]

Really? Last time I looked Binladen was still dead and GM & Chrysler was still alive. We went from losing 250.000 job's a month in 08-09 to adding an average of 139000 a month this year and thats down from the 153000 jobs a month we were adding all of last year.
Wall Street went from a death spiral in late 08 early 09 to above where it was before the crash today.
We're out of the tragedy that was Iraq and most of alkida is dead. And OB pulled it off with no help, zilch, zero, nada, from Republicans. Really pissed em off finding out on CNN binladen was dead.
OB walked into a nightmare. And for 12.5 million people the nightmare is still going. My point here is he can't do much more until the congress and senate put legislation on his desk that will put people back to work.
Jetty, because you have no clue how government works, you and many others are blaming one guy when the real blame falls on mostly one but overall both parties. The 2010 takeover was about job's and medicare. Now they want to turn medicare into a voucher program that will cost seinors 2k out of pocket and could cost as much as 6k out of pocket. thats 25 to 50% of the average social security income for a seinor. And they have not created a single job. In 2 years they created a debt crises that brought us to the brink of another financial collapse, cost wall street billions and got or bond rating downgraded. All over paying the nations debt payments 90% of which they ran up. AS I said OB owns around 1.4 trillion of the debt. the rest of the 14 + is a combination of their actions, policies, and interest on it.
And one other thing, Bush did not try to change fanny and freddy 17 times. He tried twice. first time Dem's shot it down but so did repugs. Second time repugs said no.
And for the record, I'm an independant. It's just that repug's have acted so badly over the last 12 years telling the truth about them makes everyone look like a dem.
See, I was rased to believe nothing but the facts and what's in front of you no matter how much you want to or not to believe. Never take things for granted because in my line of work that get's people killed. You said look at his actions, and I have very closely. My problem is I really can't find much this congress has managed to do at all. But with respect to job's Boehner has done nothing at all. His 27 job's bills are more tax cuts that are all for the wealthy. Not one of them are for the middle class. Considering we are the economy and our spending represents over 70% of the economy you'd think it would be in the countries best interest to give us more tax breaks. We'll spend the money because we don't have off shore accounts to put it in. And for the record YEAH! this country is far better off now than it was 4 years ago. I'm sure 12 million people wouldn't agree. I just hope they remember who cost them their job's and who hasn't done a thing to get them back to work. AS I have always said, if you're gonna blame or hate, at least take the time to put it in the right place. Because blaming or hating someone for the wrong reasons, Is just friggin stupid. just saying

[MoJo]

It is hilarious how But-hurt republicans are when they know there losing.

You guys are wasting your time trying to talk common sense to this guy.
His truth is the only truth the republican party line truth.

JP your like 100 times worse than Fox news. If some republican sees a penny on the sidewalk, He yells because it is Obama's fault that it isn't a quarter.

No we don't agree, Hopefully you will understand that and deal with it.
Thank Darwin that we have someone who will believe the Republican "spin" There going to need you.

BTW: Being this angry about Disabled people getting enough to support themselves in a very meager way so they DO NOT have to live under a bridge with the child molesters, Well it is bad for your blood pressure. Take a deep breath, Push back a second.

Yeah i know i to am wasting my time.

Wow you used the race card....how nice. Shows just who you are very clearly now.

[MoJo]

Walls of illegible nonsense do NOT win an argument.

Much less make a point. See i can use the lil cartoonie thingys also.

[MoJo]

Here comes another wall.....Be ready

Cause i am out, even though i am on Disability INSURANCE, Food stamps AND Section 8 housing. I have better things to do that to talk s*** with this guy.

[CubanExpress]

Mojo Where the hell in my replies did i ever say that i have it out for Disabled People

Jetty, when you typed this:

The Sheep believe that the Government is the way to go, and you guys are half way there.. close to 50% waiting for a check..

Has it ever crossed your mind that disabled people receive government benefit's? The majority of the 50% you're bashing are recipients of social security and medicare that are over the age of 65 years old.

[MoJo]

Hmmm lets see... fact> Welfare spending has increased 41%
Fact> Food stamps enrollment 70%
Fact> MILLIONS!!!!!!! have sign up for SS disability payment

Welcome EBT Cards...According to that EBT Commission report, 85% of EBT benefits, or
$77 Million in a three month period between October and Dec. 2011, were translated into cash at ATMs.

Hell who would want to work with all the free chit Obama and the Dem keep giving
away

Disability payments come from US Government sponsored INSURANCE paid for by each individual Citizen.

You and every tax paying employed person pays for your OWN disability insurance coverage, If you become disabled and are willing to fight for YEARS to actually get the coverage, Only after then can you collect your "easy money" that YOU yourself paid into YOUR policy. Also IF you able to fight the fight you will only be paid according to how much YOU paid into YOUR policy.

ALSO EBT: Sorry to burst your bubble but food stamps on an ebt card can NOT be withdrawn as cash at an atm.

Your thinking is minimal at best.

[CubanExpress]

I have to throw in as a whole number it cant be broken up... yes i know i'm
throwing old people/vets/people with disease (Me) in the group...

But i still work even through all the pains/pills i still try to find work and make
end meat...

Take a moment and go to wally world on the first of the month and look at all those people
that CAN work but got around it and know how to cheap the system..

Thats what pisses me off the most.. i also give my time to talk and listen to returning
Military that are having a hard time.. but have to go thru hoops to get any kind of help
while others laugh and get it because they had a dozen babies...

No sir i knew what i was doing when i wrote that and i also know a chit load of seniors
who feel the same way i do.... and most of them would rather WORK for it then have
it given to them..... I stand by my statement we are becoming a country of welfare
babies that rather wait by the mailbox then put boots on the ground and work for it..

Too bad that our older generation has more Pride in themselves then most of today
generation.....

JP, I agree with you 100%. I'll type my reply to this post tonight.

[opiato]

it's been slightly edited by a liberal workin for the orlando sentinel, but here's my two cents from an article i submitted for extra credit in an economics course. hopefully the print's big enough for yall to read...

[Thelonereeler]

We need a government that follows the constitution instead of passing laws to "protect" us by taking what's left of our rights.

[crashmister]

Edited for big words.
As usual Jetty your all over the map. MoJo's reference is to the fact that fully 1/3 of all people on welfare are disabled. Another 1/3 are elderly. Neither 3rd is able to work. As I stated, your comments that OB has gutted welfare is a lie perpetrated but the Romney/Ryan campagin and it's surrogates (People who are speaking for the campagin)
So in "The real world" your rant about OB giving anyone free money is, well, stupid and has no basis in actual fact (The real world)

Your question, Are "WE" is not specific. So I qualified my answer's in specific areas. (Part's of the whole picture) As I said, some are good some are not so good. For me personally my last 3 tax returns under OB are over double any other return I've ever gotten in my life. Due to the stimulus. (American recovery & reinvestment act of 2009)

From a market prespective, (Poeple looking at the stock market) The US is out performing both Europe and Asia. (Making more money) Wall street's employement #'s have been all over the place. Mostly due to mergers, (2 Companies folded into one) And acquisitions, (One company buying another) But overall employement #'s are up on wall street compared to the post crash (After the crash) #'s from Oct 08 to Feb 09.

Manufacturing (Making stuff) is adding job's for the first time in 11 years. Due at least to some degree (Part of the reason) to the current administration's (Obama) trade agreements (Contracts that say how much stuff they can send here and how much stuff we get to send back) with both China and Korea (Asian countries with short people who talk funny)

Public sector job's, (People who work for the city or state like Teachers, Cop's and Firemen and such) are way down. The end of the stimulus (See above) caused the budget deficit's (Lack o money to pay for state stuff and Cop's, Teacher's, and Firemen), along with a bunch of tea party governors and legislators (Nut sac's who don't have a clue) who cut rich peoples taxes even though they already had budget shortfalls (Not enough money) then went after Teachers, Firemen, and Cop's to pay for them. On a side note, I still don't get the republican/tea bagger idea that laying people off creates job's. Must one of those thing's that only makes sense to them. (Ain't seen the ball sinse the kickoff logic)

12.5 million people still out of work suck's!! But it's still better than the 15.4 that were out 4 years ago.

In fact, in almost every case everything is down, not good or flat out bad. Except the 1% (Really frigging rich people) of course. They (People like Mitt Romney) are doing just fine.

2 thing's Jetty, first I'm not saying everything's rosey. My comments (Things I said) are not meant imply (Say something) that the country is doing that great right now. What I'm saying is thing's were that bad 4 years ago. What you don't get is neither McCane, OB, or anyone else on the hill had any clue how bad the countries economic situation was until after the Liehman bankruptcy which took place 4 years ago yesterday. Hank Paulson didn't tell Congress until 8 day's from now 4 years ago. 4 years ago, Both OB and McCane were making promisses that they would find out in a week they had no way to keep.
Second, I voted for OB because McCane picked Sara say what as his running mate.

As far as rev Wright, that dog don't hunt my friend! There's only one party jambing radical religion down our throats right now. And they are using it to wage a war on womens rights. That's just flat out evil. I've always wondered like Gandhi, "How come Christians are so unlike Christ"?
Tried to splain the big words for ya.

[MoJo]

Which BTW REMINDS me what exactly is Romney hiding in all those tax returns he will NOT make public, LIKE every other presidential hopefuls always have.

Can you spell Cayman

[crashmister]

Opiato, While I agree, there's a huge difference in socialized medicine and what OB care is and does.
For example, under OB care the hospitals will still be privately owned unlike SoMed. In a SoMed system the government own's everything. Insurance companies don't exist, medical supply companies are all gov owned. And the gov dictates the care you recieve much like the insurance companies do now here.
OB care changes none of those from the way they are now. What it changes is who and how it's payed for. In simple terms, it takes the welfare style system for the uninsured we have now and add's them to the insured rolls. People who can afford to buy it will under the mandate. People who can't will get subsidies. That part of the plan is still yet to be proven. The logic behind it is the people who have to buy but don't use the services is supposed to off set the cost of the poeple who can't buy but do use it. Many reputable medical economists seem to think this might be a bit optimistic. wether it works in real life remains to be seen. The idea is to push people onto copay work plans if avalible and if not, push them onto affordable plans that take the burden of the taxpayer's and people who are paying for insurance at inflated prices due to cost offsets for uninsured people. Or paying 2300 dollars for an ER visit that entails an xray and 2 stitches. In Canada that exact same visit would cost around 300.00. It also adds wellness care and preventative care coverage to all insurance. It's very optimistic to say the least, but it's fixable in the event any part don't work. To be very clear here, I'm not saying it's good or bad, just that it's not socialized medicine as some have stated. Heres a cost breakdown.



By a vote of 219 to 212, the House of Representatives passed the health care reform bill. While it seems everybody has an opinion about Obamacare, we thought we’d stick just to the facts, and let you decide whether the bill is good or bad for the country. So with that in mind, here are 26 facts and figures about the health care reform bill:
1.Republicans: No Republicans voted for the bill
2.Democrats: 34 Democrats voted against the measure

Source: Health care reform: How House members voted – CNN.com
3.32 Million: The estimated number of currently uninsured Americans who will receive coverage under the bill
4.$940 billion: The estimated cost of health care reform over the next 10 years
5.$143 billion: The estimated reduction in the deficit from the bill over the next 10 years
6.$53 billion: The portion of the $143 billion in deficit reduction that comes from social security payroll taxes that eventually will be paid out in the form of retirement benefits.
7.$70 billion: The portion of the $143 billion in deficit reduction that comes from premiums to be collected as part of a new government-run, long-term care program for the elderly. These premiums eventually will be paid out in the form of benefits.
8.$88,000: New health insurance subsidies would be provided to families of four making up to $88,000 annually, or 400 percent of the federal poverty level
9.Pre-existing conditions: Insurance companies will be prohibited from denying coverage based on pre-existing conditions.
10.Age 26: Insurers would be required to provide coverage for non-dependent children up to age 26
11.Doughnut Hole: Under current law, Medicare stops covering drug costs after a plan and beneficiary have spent more than $2,830 on prescription drugs. It starts paying again after an individual’s out-of-pocket expenses exceed $4,550. Called the doughnut hole, it will be closed by 2020.
12.40% Tax: A 40 percent tax would be imposed on insurance companies providing “Cadillac” health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The tax would kick in starting in 2018.
13.3.8% Medicare Tax: A 3.8% surcharge would be imposed on investment income for individuals making over $200,000 and couples making over $250,000. This tax increase is estimated to bring in $210 billion between 2013 and 2019.
14.$695 or 2.5%: The potential amount of a fine if you fail to purchase health care insurance. Starting in 2016, Individuals would be required to purchase coverage or face a fine of up to $695 or 2.5 percent of income, whichever is greater. The plan includes a hardship exemption for poorer Americans.
15.50 employees: Companies with more than 50 employees would be required to pay a fee of $2,000 per worker if the company does not provide coverage and any of that company’s workers receives federal health care subsidies. The first 30 workers would be subtracted from the payment calculation.

(source: Highlights of health care compromise bill – CNN.com)
16.Abortion: In a deal with conservative Democrats, President Obama will sign an Executive Order “that will reaffirm its consistency with longstanding restrictions on the use of federal funds for abortion.” The order can be rescinded by President Obama or any future president at any time, for any reason.

(sources: Obama Executive Order on Abortion Funding, What health care reform means for your small business – CNN Money, Checking the Math on Health Care – NYTimes.com)
17.0.9%: Medicare Part A (hospital insurance) tax rate would be increased by 0.9 percent, to 2.35 percent.
18.$16 billion: The amount drug manufacturers would pay the US between 2011 and 2019.
19.$47 billion: Health insurers would pay $47 billion over the same period.
20.2.9% excise tax: Medical device manufacturers would pay a 2.9 percent excise tax on the sale of any of their products beginning January 1, 2013.
21.Tanning Tax: Health care reform establishes a tax of 10 percent on indoor tanning services. This would raise $2.7 billion between 2010 and 2019. As fare as we know, getting a tan outside is still free.
22.$132 billion: Government payments to Medicare Advantage would be reduced by $132 billion over 10 years.

(source: Health care reform bill 101: Who will pay for reform? / The Christian Science Monitor – CSMonitor.com)
23.Flexible Spending Accounts: The maximum amount you can set aside pre-tax for health care costs in a flexible spending account will be reduced from $5,000 to $2,500.

(source: Obamacare wins: Now the pain begins)
24.46%: The percentage of Americans in favor of health care reform, according to a Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll.
25.45%: The percentage of Americans against the bill according to the same poll.
26.36%: The percentage of Americans who think the bill is a “good idea,” according to the same poll.

(source: American Public Divided On Health Care Reform (POLL))

[al305]

LOL I see you guys are still at it.

[Green Tide]

hopefully the print's big enough for yall to read...

If not just hit ctrl + and it will magnify. Really comes in handy for some of the fish stories on this site.
ps don't use it on any of my stories.

[jbuck501]

Two opposing sides will never agree. You can discuss, argure or fight over politics and never win. November will decide the out come. For me....... vote Obama if you suck on the goverment tit. Vote Romney if you want to work and make a living.

[MoJo]

Well the entire discussion is moot anyways since he will never show us his tax returns for the last ten years like every candidate has in the past.

NO ONE with a brain will vote in a guy who clearly has something so horrible to hide in his past, That he hides it from the American voters....No One....Ohhh Wait....

And you never did spell Cayman as in islands, as in Romney's Cayman bank acct s for hiding all his millions from the tax man.

Just keep screaming the socialist's are coming the socialist's are coming!

[jbuck501]

Dang!! Just wrote a long winded post to piss off Pat. Must have not hit submit when done!!!
By the way..... I have met Pat, respect him very much and regaurdless of our differing views I still like him!!