Are we really better off??

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CubanExpress
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by CubanExpress »

jettypark28 wrote:I have to throw in as a whole number it cant be broken up... yes i know i'm throwing old people/vets/people with disease (Me) in the group...

But i still work even through all the pains/pills i still try to find work and make
end meat...

Take a moment and go to wally world on the first of the month and look at all those people
that CAN work but got around it and know how to cheap the system..

Thats what pisses me off the most.. i also give my time to talk and listen to returning
Military that are having a hard time.. but have to go thru hoops to get any kind of help
while others laugh and get it because they had a dozen babies...

No sir i knew what i was doing when i wrote that and i also know a chit load of seniors
who feel the same way i do.... and most of them would rather WORK for it then have
it given to them..... I stand by my statement we are becoming a country of welfare
babies that rather wait by the mailbox then put boots on the ground and work for it..


Too bad that our older generation has more Pride in themselves then most of today
generation.....


The older generation did have more pride. Not only did they have more pride, they also had much better work ethics. Today's generation can't do ass busting labor or hardcore manufacturing like the old timers did in the 40's, 50's and 60's. If we were to go back in time to the 17 and 1800's, the industrial revolution in America would never happen under today's standards. Things used to be built to last, now everything is disposable. Nothing new will ever receive sentimental value, because in 15 years it will be in a landfill. Today's generation just doesn't give a hoot. All they care about are stupid cell phones, bogus TV shows, and crap music. Everywhere you look someone has their neck bent 90 degrees trying to send a text message. The worst are the ones that are constantly worried about what others think of them and have to notify to the world that they have accomplished something via facebook. No attention is ever being paid to anything else but their self-consciousness. It's a joke.

How an American factory worked during WW2.

ELCO PT Boats built from start to finish.






crashmister
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by crashmister »

That's been said about every generation Denny. The "Greatest Generation" as termed by Tom Brokaw, were mostly unemployed & going nowhere because of the depression. They went on to win WWII.
For me, from my perspective, this country started going down hill when we adopted a culture of deregulation and when we went from 52 media companies in 1960 nation wide down to10 now. We went from getting the news to "Fair & balanced" reporting. That took us from the story to the spin. Lot's of corporate double dipping going on as well.

Clear channel Owns Premiere Networks (which in turn owns The Rush Limbaugh Show, The Sean Hannity Show, The Glenn Beck Program, Coast to Coast AM, American Top 40, Delilah, Fox Sports Radio, and The Jim Rome Show, all being among the top national radio programs in their category), a portion of Sirius XM Radio, and previously held a stake in Live Nation as well as several television stations (now under the management of Newport Television). Parent company Bain Capital also owns a share in The Weather Channel.

Here's who owns the media in America. Recognise any names?


TV and Radio

Overview
Bain Capital/Thomas H. Lee Partners (Clear Channel)
CBS Corporation
Comcast Corporation
Gannett Co.
News Corp. Murdoc, Fox
Time Warner, Inc.
Tribune Company
Viacom
Walt Disney Company
Washington Post Co.

Broadcasters make billions in profits while using the public airwaves for free. In return, they are supposed to provide programming that fulfills community needs. Instead, lobbyists have successfully fought to make it easier for broadcast companies to gobble up even more free airspace while doing less to serve the public.

Cable and Telecommunications

Overview
AT&T
Cablevision Systems Corporation
CenturyLink
Charter Communications, Inc.
Comcast Corporation
Sprint Nextel Corporation
T-Mobile USA, Inc.
Time Warner Cable, Inc.
Verizon

Now you know why I have to spend hours on the internet to track down the truth about a story. I have found over the last 9 years finding the money is the best place to start.
Point is If we just got the fact's right out of the box, I'd bet America would be a very different place right now. But, because we have thing's like this going on.
The Media Can Legally Lie

By Mike Gaddy
Writer for lewrockwell.com.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In February 2003, a Florida Court of Appeals unanimously agreed with an assertion by FOX News that there is no rule against distorting or falsifying the news in the United States.

Back in December of 1996, Jane Akre and her husband, Steve Wilson, were hired by FOX as a part of the Fox “Investigators” team at WTVT in Tampa Bay, Florida. In 1997 the team began work on a story about bovine growth hormone (BGH), a controversial substance manufactured by Monsanto Corporation. The couple produced a four-part series revealing that there were many health risks related to BGH and that Florida supermarket chains did little to avoid selling milk from cows treated with the hormone, despite assuring customers otherwise.

According to Akre and Wilson, the station was initially very excited about the series. But within a week, Fox executives and their attorneys wanted the reporters to use statements from Monsanto representatives that the reporters knew were false and to make other revisions to the story that were in direct conflict with the facts. Fox editors then tried to force Akre and Wilson to continue to produce the distorted story. When they refused and threatened to report Fox's actions to the FCC, they were both fired.(Project Censored #12 1997)

Akre and Wilson sued the Fox station and on August 18, 2000, a Florida jury unanimously decided that Akre was wrongfully fired by Fox Television when she refused to broadcast (in the jury's words) “a false, distorted or slanted story” about the widespread use of BGH in dairy cows. They further maintained that she deserved protection under Florida's whistle blower law. Akre was awarded a $425,000 settlement. Inexplicably, however, the court decided that Steve Wilson, her partner in the case, was ruled not wronged by the same actions taken by FOX.

FOX appealed the case, and on February 14, 2003 the Florida Second District Court of Appeals unanimously overturned the settlement awarded to Akre. The Court held that Akre’s threat to report the station’s actions to the FCC did not deserve protection under Florida’s whistle blower statute, because Florida’s whistle blower law states that an employer must violate an adopted “law, rule, or regulation." In a stunningly narrow interpretation of FCC rules, the Florida Appeals court claimed that the FCC policy against falsification of the news does not rise to the level of a "law, rule, or regulation," it was simply a "policy." Therefore, it is up to the station whether or not it wants to report honestly.

During their appeal, FOX asserted that there are no written rules against distorting news in the media. They argued that, under the First Amendment, broadcasters have the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on public airwaves. Fox attorneys did not dispute Akre’s claim that they pressured her to broadcast a false story, they simply maintained that it was their right to do so. After the appeal verdict WTVT general manager Bob Linger commented, “It’s vindication for WTVT, and we’re very pleased… It’s the case we’ve been making for two years. She never had a legal claim.”
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Kerato
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by Kerato »

Eman305 wrote:Who are you voting for
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Green Tide
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by Green Tide »

[quote="jettypark28"]I never met Pat but he seems to be a stand up guy no matter how wrong his views
are :mrgreen: and i hope he knows this chit never gets personal with me...

Oh Pat is a stand up guy without a doubt.
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You shoulda been here yesterday!!!

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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by crashmister »

I disagree jetty, I think most adults are smarter than a 5 year old. But I also think people believe what they want rather than what the fact's show. And as I have been saying for years now, with respect to certain facts, history is the tell. For me the tax cut argument started with a term paper in high school on the great depression.

The Great Depression brought an end to GOP tax cuts. Faced with a ballooning deficit, President Herbert Hoover proposed a major tax increase, including new excise taxes and a broader, somewhat steeper income tax. In a striking display of bipartisanship, Democratic leaders embraced the plan. They even went Hoover one better, trying to replace the regressive excise taxes with an even more regressive national sales tax. It was a major reversal for the party, which had long opposed any sort of sales tax. It was also a huge blunder, prompting a revolt among rank-and-file Democrats. When the dust finally settled, lawmakers agreed to a host of new excises, as well as steeper, somewhat broader income taxes. Widely considered both prudent and distasteful, these changes constituted the largest peacetime tax increase in the nation's history. For Republicans, the law brought an unhappy end to Mellon's long campaign for tax reduction. For Democrats, it established the regressive starting point for New Deal tax reform.

Tax cuts were the order of the day -- and the decade -- throughout the 1920s. Taken together, the Revenue Acts of 1921, 1924, 1926, and 1928 lightened the burden for almost everyone. Wealthy taxpayers did particularly well, enjoying a steep decline in marginal rates; between 1918 and 1929, the top rate fell from 77 percent to just 24 percent. Meanwhile, many middle-class Americans disappeared from the tax rolls altogether, as Congress narrowed the income tax to focus on the well-to-do. Perhaps most important, the business community managed to orchestrate repeal of the excess profits tax -- the most progressive, and burdensome, tax to emerge from World War I.

On the eve of the Great Depression, the revenue system featured a narrower, flatter individual income tax, as well as a modest corporate income levy. Despite the best efforts of Treasury Secretary Andrew Mellon, it also included an estate tax; Democrats and progressive Republicans had managed to stave off his call for repeal, although they agreed to substantial rate cuts. Mellon could console himself with broad success in almost every other facet of his tax cut program. Dominating fiscal policy for more than 11 years, he reshaped the tax system along new, distinctly less progressive lines.

Now, if you combine that history of tax cut's that were not pared with at least marginal spending cut's, to today's tax cut's and spending increases, you can quickly see why GHW Bush called it Voodoo economics. Hence the problem with the Romney/Ryan plan of cutting taxes more while not cutting anything but discretionary spending. But OB's plan really dosen't work either. Both of them fall short because neither of them address Social Security and Medicare with respect to the simple matter of projected longetivity or how long people live today as opposed to how long people lived in 1933 when SS was adopted. More people live to collect SS today than in 1933. And people who live to collect, do so for an average of 14 more years. Also, medicare can't account for the increased cost of care.

The subject is so pollitically toxic nobody has the stones to make a call on the possible solutions. Getting the legislature to act responsibly will be tough though. The main reason is retirement companies are drooling over the almost 2.2 trillion dollars in Social Security now. What you'll see is a massive lobbing effort combined with a huge disinformation campagin focused on privatization. Hence our underlying political problem. MONEY!!! Until we at least limit or at best eliminate money from every aspect of the political process, all we're gonna see is what rich people want to do and how the rest of us are gonna pay for it. For the last 11 years, we've been told how tax cut's create & promote economic growth.

While I've said many times Bush took over with a surplus, he also saw the pull back caused by the 9/11 attacks. That followed with a massive outsourcing of IT support jobs. Arguably, conspiracy theroies aside, neither were his fault. Conventional repug wisdom, although a failed one, was to cut taxes. Which he did. His problem was when that didn't work, he did it again. It's like, "I cut it twice and it's still too short"
I'm curious to see how the report from the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service is receved on the hill. The report states that a 65 year data study shows that tax cut's do not support economic growth. They simply redistribute wealth up to the top % of earners. Here is the full report for anyone who cares to read it.
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/news/busin ... conomy.pdf
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by Machiavelli_Speaks »

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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by crashmister »

Thanks Machiavelli, without saying a word, you've made my point as eloquently as anyone could.
Your turn Jetty, How does a president on his own create job's? With out the house and senate passing any of his proposals in the last 2 years, how does he put people back to work? And when they don't go back to work due soley to a lack of legislative cooperation, how is it his fault? Not just OB, any president?
It's not my fault you don't understand what's going on here. Clinton had a legislature that worked with him at least in part. Bush had a party majority in both houses. OB had a house majority for 2 years but only had a senate majority for 10 months until Kennedy's seat was lost to a repug. After that they blocked and delayed every thing he tried to do. The AJA he proposed last September, according to conservative economists had the potential to create 1.2 million job's minimum and AS MANY AS 3 MILLION JOB'S TOTAL. If they won't pass his policies, they don't get to put all the blame on him. Can't wait to see your answers.
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MoJo
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by MoJo »

Crash give up let him wallow in his non thinking ways. He has just got his head so far up Fox Trash Talk news's arse he can no longer see any light.

He will forever be looking for that quarter. eatpop

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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by crashmister »

Well you didn't answer my question and you're always gonna blame the Fire Depatrment because the house burned down. Even though they didn't start the fire, and the house was already fully involved when they got there, they didn't put it out so it's their fault.
As I said, OB took office 23 Jan 2009. Ted Kennedy died 25 August 2009. That gave OB a fillibuster proof voting majority for 7 months. Paul Kirk took over for the remaning 4 months. In effect OB had a majority for 1 not 2 years. Scott brown took over 4 Feb 2010 and repugs filibustered everything after that.
But Hey Jetty, Keep buying into the bull and blaming the wrong people. By the way, your hero Romney, finally released his tax returns for last year. 29 pages of off shore accounts only he knows the amounts of, that he payed no taxes on. A real American.

Thought this was pretty funny as well, Talk about Buyers Remorse, LMAO!!

Romney's Massachusetts beat-down!

By CHARLES MAHTESIAN |
9/18/12 4:53 PM EDT


Two new polls out of Massachusetts report that Mitt Romney is on track for an epic loss in the state where he served as governor -- possibly the worst home state beating of any presidential candidate in over a century.

A Western New England University Polling Institute poll released Tuesday reports Barack Obama leads Romney 60 percent to 38 percent, while a Public Policy Polling survey also released Tuesday has Obama ahead 57 percent to 39 percent.

It’s no surprise that Romney would be trailing in a solidly Democratic state like Massachusetts – the last 5 GOP nominees have failed to crack 37 percent there.

Still, the 18 to 22 point gap far exceeds the size of the most recent home state presidential losses suffered by Tennessee’s Al Gore in 2000 (51-47) and South Dakota’s George McGovern in 1972 (54-46) and is on par with Adlai Stevenson’s 1956 Illinois loss (60-40) and Herbert Hoover’s 1932 California loss (58-37).

Romney’s favorability ratings are just as weak: 56 percent of likely Massachusetts voters have an unfavorable opinion of Romney, compared to 34 percent who have a favorable opinion.

While the good news is that tiny, embattled band of Massachusetts Republicans think highly of Romney and plan to vote for him, it’s still not at the same level of partisan devotion as Obama – Romney has support from 91 percent of Bay State Republicans, compared to 97 percent of Democrats for Obama.

Read more about: 2012 Presidential Campaign, Mitt Romney, George McGovern, Herbert Hoover, Massachusetts Election 2012, Adlai Stevenson
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fishnfool73
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by fishnfool73 »

You love throwing your real world argument and sheep comments out there don't you ? Seems to be the only debate you have is your real world friends can't get jobs and anyone who disagrees with you is a mindless sheep. It's like debating with a Birds and the Bees teenager. Plenty of jobs to be had. I'm sorry if a degree in classical music or advance basket weaving or PE won't land someone in the real world a dream job. People look down their noses at jobs they think are below them or their education. I see plenty of people finding work in my real world they may just have to suck it up and take something outside their specialized field. You cry about people wanting government hand outs yet you cry that the Predident isn't creating jobs for Americans pretty interesting. I await your I am a sheep and in your real world reply.
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fishnfool73
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by fishnfool73 »

Why are just democrats sheep ? I don't agree anymore with one party than the other anymore. I agree with a little from each party but not all from either. If I remember I was pro Bush here back then and thought Obama would fail miserably. We are no better off now than 4 or 8 years ago. Until we by some miracle actually get a President that supports the people and not big business we as a middle class will remain second class citizens.
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by swordfish »

Hey... My .02 cents are, some things I am conservative about, others I am liberal about... You cannot be one sided and simply turn down GOOD ideas due to party affiliations... This is not about which goddamn team you are on, it is about WHAT IS BEST FOR WE, THE PEOPLE

nuff said...

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fishnfool73
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by fishnfool73 »

There are many things that need to be done by current or future goverment officals but won't. Bring home our troops and lets guard our own borders and use them for natural disasters here vs overseas. End this BS free ride for Chinese goods and take a lessson from them. Tax the heck out of imports. Walmart and those that shop there have killed mom and pop businesses here. Walmart and their cheap prices on imported goods have also forced American businesses to go overseas to lower their cost to make products.

We the working middle class pay the majority of taxes, spend the majority of money to stimulate our economy, and are the majority. Yet we have few if any politicans supporting us. The rich get the Republicans the poor the Democratic parties support, we just get the shaft from both parties.
Dreaming the dream that one day I can be as good as some of the boatless pros and catch some 12 inch mangrove snapper.

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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by Cookinman »

fishnfool73 wrote:.... we just get the shaft from both parties.

Yep - Both are Assclowns to be sure....

For me its simple.

As I look out at the RNC on TV, I see faces in the crowd that look out at ppl that look comfortable eating lunch at the Boca Country Club W Scott Rothstein and Bernie Madoff. When I look at the faces at the DNC, I see ppl that just look more like me. Since I cant get Bill Clinton back again, Im just not givin the reigns back to a guy that wants to reinstitute all the bad things GWB did to get us all fooked up in the first place....Just my opinion and others may feel differently.

Its not NEW PEOPLE that the Repubs need to put into the election in order to to win one, its NEW IDEAS. That elitist ride- the - backs- of-other-ppls-tax-dollars-while-I-create-tax-loopholes just doesnt fool ppl anymore with the advent of mass media and the ability of many to do their own research ......
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Re: Are we really better off??

Post by GMpartsman »

This is just my humble opinion.
We need to put our foot in the buttcrack of ALL the politicians in Washington and kick their sorry do nothing arses to the curb. Take away any pension or retirement money because they sure haven't earned it.
If they want to retire, they can live on Social Security like the wife and I do. Maybe knowing that they would put back the money that's been skimmed off Social Security.
Vote in a new batch of people. Working people that know how to handle money.
No lawyers, judges or career politicians.
Put a time limit on the offices, because after 4 years, they have already been compromised.

Stop paying billions to our frienemeys overseas. They are still going to hate us money on no money. The budget proposes 3 billion to Israel for military. What's wrong with this?????
Use that money in the good old US to help the homeless, feed the poor, job creation. And for dang sure don't give it to the banks.

Bring our troops home (they don't want us there anyway) and put them on the border. Another Border Patrol officer was killed yesterday. Pull our embassy people out of those countries. That way they can kill each other when they riot.

It's time we started taking care of our own instead of trying to police the world.
As I said "juat my humble opinion"

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