Canoe and lobstering

This area is about hunting and catching Lobster so you will find Info, How to's, maybe public locations. Bottom line the stuff you need to know to get-cha some BUGS
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lasthope
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Canoe and lobstering

Post by lasthope »

So this is my first year where my canoes patched up with stabilizers etc and I wanna go out and maybe try to grab some lobsters, any spots reachable by canoe ? I'm willing to go anywhere from miami to marathon. Yes I'm a complete noob at this.

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Rare
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Rare »

Some places out in the bay you don't even need a canoe to reach...but with your ride you are able to reach some nice spots and don't have to go far. Look for them sandy area with any type of structure. The fridge and shopping carts in the water are always good too.. :toast:
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Poseidon10/31
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Poseidon10/31 »

Last week the bay was so clear by Matheson Hammock I snorkeled and pulled my kayak behind me for an hour and found 2 bathtubs, a bunch of pipes and some milk crates. All were loaded and in 8-10'. One spot I found by the Grovers, I was getting swarmed by no kidding over a hundred big Grovers. Dead giveaway, I knew some big structure was nearby, sure enough, a giant bathtub. It's worth snorkeling around, you can find someone else's spot, just be a good guy and don't take every lobster off it, this way they'll replenish faster.

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bluesea
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by bluesea »

Don't waste your money driving far, Miami is full of lobster. Also do not waste your time going far out , a lot lobster close shore. There is a nice spot between brickell and coconut grove area. I'm sure you can figure out what place I'm talking about.

lasthope
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by lasthope »

As always you guys are beyond helpful. One of the many reasons I love this forum.

Peter.miami
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Peter.miami »

how are the restrictions on lobstering in areas like the matheson park or lets say key biscayne (the rickenbacker area)?

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Rare
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Rare »

miguel456 wrote:[It honestly takes zero skill to get lobster from lobster casitas(objects that greedy people dump in the ocean to attract lobster) and is frowned upon by most serious divers


So, lobster casitas are a bad thing all over?

Most serious fisherman frowned upon them spearfishing guys ....but you should now by that them divers dont care & dont think them lobster guys care either. :biglaugh:
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Poseidon10/31
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Poseidon10/31 »

I thought the 100 yard rule was just for spear fishing. You 100% on that one? Agree on the casitas, just like artificial guys frown on live baiters, and fly fisherman frown on rod and reel guys, and vegans frown on everyone. Sure, it may not take much skill, but if you just want a lobster... Driving to work in a car doesn't take much skill either, so do you walk there? Lol.

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bluesea
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by bluesea »

miguel456 wrote:
Peter.miami wrote:how are the restrictions on lobstering in areas like the matheson park or lets say key biscayne (the rickenbacker area)?
You need to be 100 yards away from the shore and you are allowed 6 lobster a day(each lobster has to have a carapace greater than 3'').You must also have a saltwater fishing license along with a lobster stamp.It honestly takes zero skill to get lobster from lobster casitas(objects that greedy people dump in the ocean to attract lobster) and is frowned upon by most serious divers.Look for areas where theres lots of rocks by dropoffs and you should be able to find lobster almost anywhere in South Florida.PM me if you need any more advice.

100 yards away from shore? :roll:

6 lobster per person per day for Monroe County and Biscayne National Park
12 per person per day for the rest of Florida ( during the mini season) July 30-31

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gruntking
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by gruntking »

right there at the rickenbacker
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Rare
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Rare »

Are the lobster casitas a bad thing in any part of the world?

The rules from what I recall from an FWC guy when asked about 100yd rules it different from the bridges from xxmm to xxmm. Which I would have gotten his name. But I take your word since you seem to know the law.

So, if the rule is 100 yd, are these divers breaking the rules....Are they greedy? Don't you get lobster off the bridges? Does that make you a law breaker and greedy? Are you guys frowned upon breaking the rules and knowing them? I'm just trying to gather my facts here
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lasthope
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by lasthope »

I'm familiar with regular laws and never had to deal with any lobster related calls, but I read up on some of the info. It goes as follows during the Sport season : "300ft of any improved residential shoreline , any manmade or private canal, any public or private marina" as far settin up an artificial structure it seems to be restricted. There are no distance specifications for the regular season.

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krash
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by krash »

The posession limits are different only in the "Sport Season" vs regular lobster season, Sport Season = 6 per person in Monroe County and Biscayne National Park (outside Eliott Key) 12 per person rest of Florida. Regular Season = 6 per person everywhere in Florida.

I think the 300' restriction is in some areas of Monroe county, check with local LEO...

There are many complete no-take zones to be aware of, including part of Biscayne Bay.

Be careful diving any manmade "casita's", there are some restrictions somewhere that address's that as also not being completely legal.

Here is a pretty good pdf summary of Lobstering info, but is produced mainly for Monroe County, never leave the dock without it.
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Rare
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Rare »

Rare wrote:Are the lobster casitas a bad thing in any part of the world?
I was really looking for a discussion with miguel456 on this but never got any reply to my question. That's okay cause FWC at least looked at it a few years back,(http://www.keysnet.com/2011/11/12/39578 ... bster.html) then in June thought about it some more and now are going to be holding a brief summary meeting on it. eatpop There is a lot on the plate this meeting coming up. http://myfwc.com/about/commission/commi ... 20/agenda/

Staff Reports
Spiny Lobster Commercial Dive Endorsement – The moratorium on issuing new spiny lobster commercial dive (CD) endorsements is scheduled to expire on July 1, 2015. Staff will review the history of this endorsement program and provide an overview of considerations for possibly continuing the moratorium on new endorsements and/or allowing for transfer of the endorsement. Staff will also provide a brief summary of some other closely related commercial lobster issues, including casitas, which may require Commission consideration in the near future.
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Rare »

Full story http://keysnews.com/node/60483 I took some bits and piece of this but this is what its about. even some of the commercial guys are with this.

FWC: Lobster casitas too problematic
BY TIMOTHY O'HARA Citizen Staff
tohara@keysnews.com


The FWC board will discuss the issue when it meets at 8:30 a.m. Thursday at the Key Largo Hilton, 97000 Overseas Highway. FWC staff will ask the board whether it still wants staff to pursue legalization.

"We're done," said marine salver John Coffin, who has worked with other commercial divers to legalize casitas. "I really feel betrayed by (FWC) staff. The biology is good. They didn't want the headaches. Nobody wants the headaches. ... They didn't give their study enough credit."

A 2011 study done in conjunction with the FWC found that casitas have minimal impact on the marine environment. The study also found that lobster movement patterns do not appear to be affected by the presence of casitas. After the study was released, the FWC board agreed to look into legalizing casitas.

Coffin argued that the commercial trap fishermen had actively lobbied against casitas, and the state agency has caved to their demands.

"The biology was good. The politics were bad," Coffin said.

The opinion has major impacts in the Florida Keys, as more than 90 percent of the spiny lobster in the state comes from Keys waters. Despite being illegal, commercial and recreational divers do dive on casitas and harvest lobsters from them.

In an effort to gauge the scope of agencies that might be involved in developing or allowing a casita fishery, FWC staff in the Florida Keys reached out to state and federal personnel representing a wide variety of agencies, including the Florida Department of Environmental Protection (DEP), the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary and the Army Corps of Engineers.

Of the agencies contacted, all expressed belief that they have some measure of authority related to the placement of casitas, according to a report by FWC scientists Mason Smith, Melissa Recks and Jessica McCawley.

Federal regulations already prohibit the placement of casitas in the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. The majority of the area where casitas were originally placed was within the boundaries of the sanctuary. The FWC commission has the authority to regulate fishing with traditional fishing gear inside the sanctuary. However, sanctuary officials do not believe casitas are traditional fishing gear in Florida, and are therefore subject to federal regulations that prohibit construction or placement of structures on the seabed within the sanctuary, according to FWC's report.
"
There is a small area outside of the sanctuary that is of the proper depth and habitat to potentially support productive casitas. However, because these large structures would need to be anchored to the bottom to prevent movement and minimize environmental damage, DEP has responded that they would likely be subject to permitting requirements, including approval by the governor and Florida Cabinet. In addition, because they could be considered artificial reefs, placement may also require permits from the Army Corps of Engineers.
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Leadslinger
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Leadslinger »

Follow the money. Sure wish I could have been at the Largo meeting tomorrow.

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Green Tide
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Green Tide »

Of the agencies contacted, all expressed belief that they have some measure of authority related to the placement of casitas, according to a report by FWC scientists Mason Smith, Melissa Recks and Jessica McCawley.

Now what if you add an r after the c in jessicas last name.
Chicken koops are legal artificial reefs, I see no distinction to them and other casitas.The anchoring is of course an issue in deep water locations but simple math would make them safe as a lobster or crab trap with a concrete floor.
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Rare »

I'm waiting to hear some reports back from the meeting but you know how things down there go, John. I got an email from FWC that Red Grouper conservation measures approved by FWC. From 4 red groupers to 2 groupser in the gulf. If all dont starts Jan 1st, 2015
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Green Tide
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

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Maybe will work on a few of them next weekend
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Rare
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

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Leadslinger wrote:Follow the money. Sure wish I could have been at the Largo meeting tomorrow.

This is from Rob Hammer. Come as no surprise to any of us....

Here's a synopsis of what was said. A woman from the FWC gave a presentation, in the very beginning of the presentation she said "We don't have red snappers in the Keys, we have lobsters". I felt like standing up and saying "ARE WE SUPPOSE TO BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU SAY YOU MORON"? Anyways, she went on about the casita's and as we all knew, they were not going to be endorsed by anyone as there is just too much money involved. The head puppet for the lobster trappers (Bill Kelly) stood up and said that the casita's were nothing more than garbage on the ocean floor and that they moved around in storms just like the traps did.

The lady said that there would be confrontation as the Feds claim part of the water and would have to give their permission, the Army Corp of Engineers would have to approve them since they were "artificial structure" along with a host of other problems like "how would we enforce others from harvesting from them?"

I gave my .02 but it was doomed before I ever decided to talk. This came as no surprise as their money does the talking and not a single casita diver dared speak as they don't want to give away their identity. I on the other hand could care less if they know my name because I don't even possess a license to catch lobsters.

I spoke to one of the guys that I knows still does it and he said "I'll just keep doing what I've been doing", he has traps but also has casita's. All his lobsters will be sold as "trapped" lobsters.

I think every FWC employee in the state was there. There were more badges there than I'd seen in a long time. None of them spoke a word, they were just there for show.

They showed a slide show showing the % of lobsters harvested by trappers, it was like 90% with the remaining 10% divided up between divers and bully netters. Of course the trappers don't like the bully netters.... hmmm, I wonder why? $$$$$ They want all that piece of the pie for themselves. A couple of trappers stood up and said "We've been working with the FWC reducing our traps and we have a lot of money invested... " Oh spare me the tears. They're making more money than GOD now and they don't want to give any of it out.

Anyways, it is what it is and there will be no more discussion for the legalization of casita's. If you guys are going to dive them, don't get caught.

Oh BTW, they're knocking our red groupers down to 2 per person from 4 per person. In the Keys, we could only have 3 per person so it isn't that big of a hit. Everyone was in agreement as they would rather be able to catch a few per day year round than have closed months. I did bring up that I felt their data is completely BS. It showed that anglers caught 5X as many red groupers this year as we did 2 years ago. For the record, I have not had my catch checked in 8 years at the boat ramp or the marina so how do they come up with these figures?

Whatever, I'm going fishing when the wind stops. Trappers won.
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

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Another example of what happens to the majority when you are not organized. You remember during the summer when there was talk of eliminating mini season in the name of safety. Then they started with the regs on rafting after the guy fell into the prop on that guy laz's boat even though it wasn't a rafting issue.
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

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That whole thing with DJ Jack-@$$ gave Key Biscayne what they needed and have planned for so long but never got and still working on it..to ban and enforcement any on the sand bar.
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Rare »

How about this post....

[Many of you have a ton more water experience than me, but I do have eyes and a brain and can do simple math. I have worked on a commercial lobster boat. I have worked in casita removal programs. I know both sides very well from real world experience. Fact is we harvest over 90% of the legal lobster biomass each season, so there is a ton of pressure on this fishery. Go to the Bahamas to see the difference! Lobster traps are a dirty relic from the way it got started. If you have a nice grass or landscaped yard, go cover it up and black it out for 10 days. Everything will be dead. That's what a trap does when it DOESN'T move. Next point, once those lobster go in a trap (any size) they don't come out. The rest of the season they get placed in one trap or another as live bait. While in the trap they eat the wood, smell like the wood and become prey for everything. They are trapped, have a limited diet and are weakened. Trigger fish go in a trap and eat the eyes out of every living lobster and kill them all. Hundreds a day from the 500 traps a day I pulled. Commercial theft and recreational theft was out of control. As many pirates out there as honest guys!!!

Removing casitas we were working off of 3 year old sonar data of "targets", all must be removed to clear them off the "target" list. 99% of targets was general debris, only a few casitas. Most of the debris was trap piles or trash from hurricanes. Areas of heavy trapping activity contained large amounts of scattered trap debris almost everywhere. The common thread was everything we removed was well established with coral growth and life. We winched everything up onto barges and threw it all in dumpsters. It was tragic. I felt terrible doing it. I wouldn't do it again.
GPS technology has changed the game of harvesting life and managing natural resources. There are plenty of holes out there full of healthy living lobster doing there thing. If the traps were gone there would be 100X as many lobster in those holes. The game would be fair for everybody and there would be no dispute about anything. The commercial trappers are great hard working people that earn an honest living. They would be forced to change, but in time the change would have the biggest impact on our reefs and lobster population. The change WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN!!!. But if you had to jump in and catch them one at a time from their natural habitat, what would the problem be? What would you have to argue over? I can see only a lot more local commercial fisherman in the water, which would bring back a higher level of respect for the habitat that supports the fisheries that pays the bills. Either harvest blindly in massive numbers without regard to the negative impact of the practice or pick from what is going to be a much healthier population from respected habitat that is protected adequately.

When I was a kid here in the 80's there was no such thing as going lobstering. I could look down in the crystal clear canal and see thousands of crossed antennas packed in any space possible. Yes, many factors have changed things here with water quality, but I bet casitas nor diving for lobsters account for what our reality is today. Go count our traps currently in use, add 20%, calculate the surface area of those traps. Take the number of weeks in the lobster season and divide by say 10 (days). Take the square footage and multiply by how many times that trap gets pulled in a season. That number will be a fair representation of how much bottom of any kind is killed each season when traps don't move in storms. I think it would be fair to assume there is more damage than what that final figure would be and that is acceptable by our current standards. That's why anybody interested in a casita would freak out
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Green Tide
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Re: Canoe and lobstering

Post by Green Tide »

Sounds like the familiar speech of someone that is full of shite. 1000s of antenna? please. Go back to your school of liberalism and ask the instructors why they have planted such a bad message in your head. It is the same ones that don't even teach correct history they sell trash and call it education.
If things are so bad stop commercial harvesting now instead of letting the money corrupt.Your beliefs are not my beliefs. You pulled growing reef systems because you listened instead of learned. Nature adapts and that is what was happening but you compounded the problem you are trying to solve. Nice one.
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