Questions and Answers--2008 SBFG Shorebound Shark Tourney

cudaman · Post by **cudaman** » Sat May 03, 2008 7:49 pm

Hi all, this topic is for the questions you might have. Rules, tourney entries, etc.....

We ask that you keep your comments in a non offensive manner and that you handle your self in a mature way as the rule below specifies:

9- COMPLAINTS & BEHAVIOR: All Tourney participants are expected to express themselves and act in a mature manner. No bashing of other participant teams or members, judges, sponsors, or the board members will be allowed. In the case that you have a complaint, please submit it by IM, PM, or E-mail to the tourney board. You can express yourself in that manner. Remember the way you behave is how sponsors and the public will perceive this Tourney so please conduct yourself accordingly.

Shark_Hunter · Post by **Shark_Hunter** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:01 pm

Heres my opinion on a couple issues...take it for what its worth:

Secret items: Just a suggestion. This year make the secret item more readily available at the beginning of the tournament. I lost several good days of fishing last year cause i didnt recieve my sign until after the tourney started (It was mailed promptly however). This year we should be able to print out the 2008 sign (even if its just a temporary one) or make the item somethng that can be purchased at any store like a walmart. The orange striped tape measure seemed to work great for the big hammer challenge. Also I think there definitely needs to be a secret item for everyone on the team.

Video Cameras: I really think using videos instead of still pictures is a bad idea for the tournament. Heres why:
1: Not everyone owns a video camera (at least I dont). For those of
us who dont have one, $200 bucks is what it costs for a cheap one.
Anything more expensive and people arent going to want to bring it to
the beach. That along with the more pricy etry fee than last year is going to make this an expensive tournament. Just about everyone has a digital camera for still shots....and if not 50 bucks at walmart will get you one.
2: I realize that the judges worked very hard last year to sort through hundreds of pictures and update the standings in a timely manner. That said, I really have my doubts of anyone being able to sort through hours of video.
3: Safety: As we all know, grabbing a shark of any size by the tail is something that should be done with great caution. I want my team mate(s) to be standing by, if I need help landing the fish. On my four member team last year, we typically fished in groups of two. If the other man is video taping the whole thing, than he probably wont be able to help me out with the shark if I need it.
4: File sizes: The file sizes for a video is much bigger than a still shot. This could pose problems when emailing/submitting entries.
5: Bonus points: video is a great opportunity for bonus points, but still shots should be the basic form of submitting fish (like last year)

Measuring sharks: If size is going to matter (i.e. inches count) in this tournament, the shark needs to be measured with a tape measure on site. Digitally determining the size using the secret item is fine for seeing if the shark meets the minimum length, but not a good method of comparing one shark to another. Its almost impossible to take a picture, let along a video of a shark perfectly straight so that you can see its true length.

Thats my input guys...take it for what its worth...i hope it helps.

DouGR81 · Post by **DouGR81** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:13 pm

Shark Hunter hit it dead on.

bigboyjames11 · Post by **bigboyjames11** » Mon May 05, 2008 2:36 pm

fully agree.

maddawgandcrew · Post by **maddawgandcrew** » Mon May 05, 2008 4:12 pm

GET READY AND FISH

cudaman · Post by **cudaman** » Mon May 05, 2008 4:15 pm

Thanks for your input. As shown on the rules we need to realize that the tourney has grown and that this year it will include cash prizes that will go towards 1st, 2nd, 3rd, biggest shark, and hopefully more depending on how many sponsors we get, hence the reason for us to request video. We knew it would pose a problem for some, but as Tommy pointed out before, it has to be done.

We did a test last year and many teams submitted the videos and we were happy with at least 99% of them, so we know it can be done.

1: Not everyone owns a video camera (at least I dont).

If you have a digital camera 99% chances are you own a video camera just look into the settings of your digital camera (you will see the image of a video camera). All you will need is memory if you already have at least 1mb of memory then you can take up to about an hour of video (it’s what my camera can take, my videos on youtube are from my digital camera)

2: I realize that the judges worked very hard last year to sort through hundreds of pictures and update the standings in a timely manner. That said, I really have my doubts of anyone being able to sort through hours of video.

Yes there were 271 sharks and the judge/s went trhu all of them. The videos are not going to be 1 hour long each one. Ask those who turned videos in last year. Each part of the actual video that was needed was about 3 minutes long. We will have the time to go through the videos.

3: Safety: As we all know, grabbing a shark of any size by the tail is something that should be done with great caution. I want my team mate(s) to be standing by, if I need help landing the fish. On my four member team last year, we typically fished in groups of two. If the other man is video taping the whole thing, than he probably wont be able to help me out with the shark if I need it.

Safety is what you will always need to think about “always”. The person that is filming can always put the camera down in case of an emergency, this person will definitely be watching what is going on first hand.

4: File sizes: The file sizes for a video is much bigger than a still shot. This could pose problems when emailing/submitting entries.

You do not have to email the video. You can also use a CD, VHS or even a file transfer like AOL.

5: Bonus points: video is a great opportunity for bonus points, but still shots should be the basic form of submitting fish (like last year)

The answer to this is the same as the first question.

We are still working on the secret item, and we are taking into consideration some of your suggestions.

I hope this answers your questions.

benjamin · Post by **benjamin** » Mon May 05, 2008 4:29 pm

Shark Hunter,
If a cash prize is offered, video proof of a catch is a necessity to this tourney. It lessens the chance that someone would attempt to cheat by multiple submissions, as is made more possible by only requiring a photo. Im not saying anyone is or has been dishonest... but in the past, us anglers would compete primarily for bragging rights, and be happy with the extra prizes we could take home. With money on the line, however, someone might be tempted to cheat.... I dont know about you, but i would hate to loose a tourney because of dishonesty, cash prize or no cash prize. Video proof practcally eliminates this possibility.

I agree with you about the measurment of a potential big shark. I think that if you catch something that is over 10 ft, (or something even bigger that might win the big fish prize) it needs to be measured with a tape in the picture because a shark cannot accurately be measured by comparing an item to it online as the shark might be twisting toward or away from the camera....

i think that even if the shark is perfectly straight, the shark is going to look largest in the middle of the screen and taper away on each end... so measuring it after the catch might be a little off.

anyone else who cares to read this... ...for your consideration...

T-heads are more rare than tigers(at least to us) lol. so they should be worth more points. In the same respect. I dont think a T-head should be beached AT ALL... no exceptions.... wade out with the secret item, and some wire cutters while someone is one the video and digital camera. cut it loose and watch it live. they're only getting harder to catch because they die SO EASILY!!!.... its our responsibility to use the knowledge we've gained and protect them. no longer letting our egos get in the way....

maddawgandcrew · Post by **maddawgandcrew** » Mon May 05, 2008 5:08 pm

O.K. LETS FISH

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Mon May 05, 2008 8:19 pm

Wow, what happened to the simple days when Pier A started this thing with a $25 entry, simple picture and all extra money going to charity.

Shark_Hunter · Post by **Shark_Hunter** » Mon May 05, 2008 9:57 pm

I see the point about dishonesty Is there any way we can compromise and require a video only for sharks that may potenitially qualify for the "big catch" categories? When you hook something big, you'll know it and that will give you plenty of time to get the camera rollin. It just seems a little rediculus to videotape dozens of blacktips and nurses.

BoatlessFisherman · Post by **BoatlessFisherman** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:10 pm

I think most important Video shows the release, many people think these sharks die, this is what we want to change. Yes there is a mortality rate but we at least want to show them swimming off and that we as real sportsman did all we could to let these toothy critters go unharmed.

cudaman · Post by **cudaman** » Mon May 05, 2008 10:50 pm

Thanks for understanding Ryan and Maddawg ...

This is no longer for bragging rights and $25.00 hardly pays for gas anymore, each one of us lost on average $800.00 last year if not more ask Gus how many t-shirts he has left....This tourney has stepped up a few levels, we refer to it as a professional tourney. There are no longer 50 or 90 sharks caught, but almost 300 hundred, more than in any professional boating tournament. As far as why the entry went up here are a few numbers for all of you to consider:

Entry Fee Calculations

Entry Fee------per team----Amount of Teams--Amount of Participants-------Cash Collected
----$50.00--------4---------------25------------------100---------------------$5,000.00---

Expenses
Amount needed for secret items--sponsorship advertisement---Reserve for postage
----------$350.00--------------------------$20.00-----------------------$100.00-----
No money for T-shirts available at the time,hopefully the sponsor will cover them. In any case it may come out of the left over money but for participants only.

Amount Left Over After Tourney Expenses
------------$4,530.00-----------------

Tourney Payouts

------1st Place---2nd Place------3rd Place-------Biggest Shark
-------$1,000-------$500-----------$250-------------$1,000----

Trophies Hopefully paid by the Sponsors, otherwise we will have to pay for them out of our own pockets once again, and those who know last year we gave original artwork as trophies. We hope to do the same this year.

Left over money will go back into the tourney, for Tanner as we try to help every year, and to cover any additional expenses.

The above only reflects amounts based on 25 teams if the amount of teams double so do the prizes, if the sponsors give money the prizes also go up.

These are just the main prizes...We will be working on creating subcategories so there will be a chance for all to be able to compete for something. We want for all that participate to feel proud of competing in this tourney.

JunoChris · Post by **JunoChris** » Tue May 06, 2008 8:09 am

I'm agree with Maddawg lets do this. Sending each video is going to be a little pain in the butt, but it will be worth it if the prizes are good.

rsieminski · Post by **rsieminski** » Wed May 07, 2008 2:00 pm

This may be a stupid question, but... why do we need big cash prizes? Why does this need to be so serous?

I don't know if I can get a team together this time... we never really could be in the running, because we are professionals, who work 5+ days a week, we live in an area that just does not have the shark populations that some of the other beaches do, E. Coast for eg, can't always travel, because of family or work schedules. At $50 a pop, and the opportunity to ruin my digi cam, I think it might be impractical for some people, and a hard sell for me to get a team together. I think most of the other entrants did it just for the fun of it, not really seriously thinking that they could win this thing. An excuse to get out and have some fun together.

Most don't even stand a chance at winning when you consider that:
The top 5 teams scored over 78% of the points
6 teams, 25% of the teams didn't score any points
The top team scored 27% of the points nearly double what the 2nd place team scored

I think most were in it just for the fun of it, I don't know??

DouGR81 · Post by **DouGR81** » Wed May 07, 2008 2:48 pm

Is there anyway we can have a poll that has choices of 1) Keep last year's format or 2) Change to proposed big money format?

JunoChris · Post by **JunoChris** » Wed May 07, 2008 6:33 pm

The rules this year are better for teams that are actually going to fish this thing hard. The cash prizes are a nice thing because if you win something it offsets some of the money you have to spend to go fishing all the time.
Six teams didnt post a fish last year, why would you want people joining who arent even going to post any fish, you just arent trying if that happens. Its just fine with me that those teams that arent going to post any fish wont enter this year. The HammerHead this year was good and it didnt have a lot of teams, but the ones it had fished hard and made the thing a success.

WhoDey · Post by **WhoDey** » Wed May 07, 2008 6:46 pm

JunoChris wrote: why would you want people joining who arent even going to post any fish, you just arent trying if that happens. Its just fine with me that those teams that arent going to post any fish wont enter this year.

Thats a really odd statement. My team fished the hammer challenge for the fun of it, and will be doing so for the shore bound. We fished about as hard as weekend warriors probably can with our schedules but were not able to post any catches. Does that mean the effort was not there? We knew our shots were limited to the Big fish & biggest fish on 80 pound or less line, so we targeted those two categories, but with no luck. To suggest that no effort was put forth kind of irks me.

cudaman · Post by **cudaman** » Wed May 07, 2008 7:51 pm

Rsieminski, I’m glad to read that your team is composed of professionals. I think I can speak for most of us, we do have jobs. I know it’s hard to fish having a full time job, I do it all the time. As far as the $50.00, in the last tourney I participated on I spent that much just in gas going to some of the places we went, at first we just wanted to put one shark on the board but found a few more. This tourney still is about fun, competition, and now it’s more than bragging rights. When you fish one of these tourneys you will remember them for ever. And we want you to be proud of fishing it.

You are just about right on the numbers you put up. The rules this year are geared towards making everyone competitive, those numbers will change as you will have to catch 3 sharks that are between 4 feet and 6 feet to equal one that is 6 feet and certain sharks over 8 or 9 feet will get you extra points.

I can also tell you that the West coast has numbers you just have to look in the right places. Big sharks in the West Coast? Correct me if I am wrong but wasn’t the world record hammer caught in the west coast and within kayaking distance? Everybody has a chance to win the biggest shark prize, everybody does.

The winning prizes I put up are just an example. We do want to have other prizes to make this a bigger competition. We do want to give all a chance to win, not just 3 or 4 teams. If you want to win you can do it.

About ruining your digital camera, you would still have to bring it with you to take a still shot. You will probably take it to the beach, pier, or bridge even if you knew it was going to rain or be windy and all that sand or dirt would get in it. There is no excuse you will have the camera with you anyways.

On the video there might be some changes later on, but we may leave it as it is, since we think it will minimize the chances of anyone cheating and it will give online tournaments more credibility. It will also create better awareness on the catch and release of sharks, this is extremely important since most people think that a shark tournament is nothing more than a slaughter house of sharks.

We spend countless hours planning, spend money of our own pockets to pay for the $50.00 of gas to drive around looking for sponsors so you guys can have an awesome experience, and this year we just want to make it fair in the best way possible for all. We are listening to suggestions but just cannot satisfy all.

Hey WhoDey, I am glad to know that you will be fishing the tourney, you won’t regret it. And Chris we hope to give all a chance to compete I know you guys will.

P.S. Thanks PA you hit it right on the nail

JunoChris · Post by **JunoChris** » Wed May 07, 2008 9:58 pm

WhoDey - I didnt mean anything by what I said. All I was trying to say is that I like having the chance to win some nice payouts for the tourney and I'm not worried about having to do a little extra with the videos and entry fee.

I think the Hammerhead challenge was a tourney you only needed one fish to win something cause there were so many catagories like biggest fish by a junior angler, biggest off the pier, biggest off a bridge, and on and on. But with the shorebound, other then the biggest fish, you really have to go out there and catch a lot of sharks to win something. And if I am going to put in the time to catch a lot of sharks I would rather do it for some nice monetary prizes. I dont share some other posters concern that some teams who dont take it as seriously would not be joining this year cause of the added requirements. I didnt mean to offend anyone.

JunoChris · Post by **JunoChris** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:37 pm

Your right the first tourney I fished on here (just found the website in the last year) was this years Hammerhead Challenge. But nothing I read about this year's shorebound let me know that there would be individual prices for things like biggest of each species. I hope that is the case because having a lot of catagories to win was one of the best things about this year's Hammerhead challenge.
Honestly I am just glad that there are tournments like this at all. Whatever the requirements are and whatever the entry fee may be, is fine with me.

rsieminski · Post by **rsieminski** » Wed May 07, 2008 10:44 pm

CudaMan,
"Rsieminski, I’m glad to read that your team is composed of professionals."
WTF? Sarcasm? Did I sound like I was condescending?

PA
Speaking of professionals, if anyone is getting "Paid to Fish" by sponsors (professional like in any other sport), then that should be disclosed beforehand. I thought all were amateurs... maybe that's not what you meant though.

Ad as for the record HH: Yes the record HH was caught last year in Boca Grande Pass, but the numbers of sharks are not here like they are on the E. Coast. They don’t show thousands of them migrating up the coast every year like they do over there. It just does not happen here. I’m just stating a fact. I didn’t say that there weren’t large hammers that follow the migrating Tarpon, just that their not here in the numbers that you find over there.

WhoDey · Post by **WhoDey** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:15 pm

JunoChris wrote:WhoDey - I didnt mean anything by what I said.

No worries, just misunderstood.

cudaman · Post by **cudaman** » Wed May 07, 2008 11:27 pm

No sarcasm rsieminski....I do not like to offend anyone online I would only do it in person...

Good luck man, I hope you will still fish the tourney and won't give it up.

rsieminski · Post by **rsieminski** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:25 am

It's all good, ya know lately (all of April!) I haven't caught one from shore. Last night I went out in the Yak for a couple of hrs. I trolled a couple of spoons upwind, without a hit for 30 min. I pitched it while drifting back, and landed a 16" Bluefish. Set it out under a balloon with a few scratches in the side, and wham, 6' Lemon just before sunset. Something about the Yak... I can get the baits out farther that way. I dunno? I have much better luck out of the Yak.

rsieminski · Post by **rsieminski** » Thu May 08, 2008 9:33 pm

Chilled, sorry

If I can convince them, we'll try it again. I might need a few committed fishermen here in the SRQ area.

sharkslayer · Post by **sharkslayer** » Sat May 10, 2008 2:22 pm

I think video is a little to much for this thing! Video is great in boat tournaments that only last a couple days but 40 days is a bit much....
And by the way the winners have to pass a polygraph test to get thier winnings so does it matter if its a pic or video?? just my $0.02

cudaman · Post by **cudaman** » Sat May 10, 2008 6:30 pm

Thank you for your input but as discussed previously video will be a part of this tourney. And I will say it again:

"On the video there might be some changes later on."

" Since we think it will minimize the chances of anyone cheating and it will give online tournaments more credibility. It will also create better awareness on the catch and release of sharks, this is extremely important since most people think that a shark tournament is nothing more than a slaughter house of sharks."

About the polygraph, it is only if we think there is a reason to believe that integrity was broken or if the prizes go over a certain amount.

sharkslayer · Post by **sharkslayer** » Sun May 11, 2008 11:08 am

that was my other concern? i heard this tourney was supposed to get up to $10,000 for first place! 1000.00 is not enough! 4 people at 50.00 a head= 200.00 + 300.00 estimated for camera=500.00, by the time you add gas and expences you wont even break even if you win first place! unless this tourney payout increases I dont see a reason to fish with all thats involved!

baitwetter · Post by **baitwetter** » Sun May 11, 2008 2:04 pm

sharkslayer wrote:that was my other concern? i heard this tourney was supposed to get up to $10,000 for first place! 1000.00 is not enough! 4 people at 50.00 a head= 200.00 + 300.00 estimated for camera=500.00, by the time you add gas and expences you wont even break even if you win first place! unless this tourney payout increases I dont see a reason to fish with all thats involved!

I would sure love to know where you get your information because I would be the first one in line for a shorebound tournament that pays $10,000 for first place. Someday hopefully but not yet.

Also, I dont think anyone that fishes this or any other tournament is thinking about breaking even. Between the reels and rods, tackle, harnesses, kayak, and travel involved most of us will never break even if we win every tournament from now until 2015!

Most people that enter this tourney, or any other shorebound tourney, do it for the fun and pride of knowing that we can catch sharks of this size from the beach. Now imagine the thousands of boat tournaments out there. First prizes range from 5,000 - 35,000. I dont think people fishing those get mad because the first prize wont cover the cost of a 75,000 boat and 1,000 in gas!! Not to mention how much it costs to enter those tournaments. Sometimes up to 5,000 PER TEAM!!!

I hope you realize that boating tournaments have been around for decades and this year will mark this tournaments 4th year. We are still learning how to crawl but you expect us to be running. An internet tournament from shore takes years of organization and planning. Sponsors are still slow in coming and this tourney is slowly growing so have a little patience, try not to badmouth what we are doing, and just enjoy the ride. Someday it just might get to a $10,000 prize or more but so will the entry fees!

I hope I have explained this to your understanding and hope that you will join us during the tourney, even if you feel the need to buy a $300.00 camera.

By the way, I see that you have a fence company. Why dont you sponsor the tourney and throw in a complete fence job to the winner of the tourney. That will raise the amount of the first prize!

cudaman · Post by **cudaman** » Sun May 11, 2008 2:10 pm

Man I wish I had a $300.00 camera.............I still have my old 5.0 megapixel camera It does video and as you may have noticed most people here already have a digital camera and if you don't have a digital camera a new 8.0 megapixel camera will cost $100.00 to $150.00......

Running a tourney of this magnitude costs money to the participants and to us....

The trophies also cost a lot of money and the other prizes you will get will add to the amount as well... and the bragging rights are priceless...It isn't just cash prizes we are talking about.

We have these expenses even for bragging right tourneys where we don't get anything in return other that bragging rights....Bragging rights or cash prizes you have to drive and spend money on tackle or digital cameras to get get a shot at it... In this Tourney You have both...With trophies, prizes, and cash prices you can at least have lots of fun and get something in return.... And since you are doing some math here is some more:

Since in your calculations you are spending money on a good camera:
$200.00 + $300(on an awesome camera) + each of you spends $50.00 for gas in the 40 Days and 40 Nights= $700.00 divided by 4 members = $125.00= $175.00 spend per member....With this you will break even plus still get trophies, prizes, and bragging rights.

If you win 1st place Estimated $1,000.00 based on 25 teams participating then $1,000 divided by 4 = $250.00 per member + trophy, + additional prizes + bragging Rights of a lifetime (in this tourney you get the bragging right just by participating)

Now being realistic since you probably already have a digital camera:
$200 entry fee + the $200.00 in gas money (if you want to have a better shot at it or if you live far from the targeted fishing grounds) = $400 divided by 4 = $100.00 spent by each one on fishing trips that you would normally do anyways. This will get you about $150.00 bucks back plus trophies, prizes, and bragging rights.

You don't have to go crazy driving you just need to hit the local beaches or piers and you still have a chance at getting the biggest shark.

Please lets not talk about cost anymore, we spend a lot more running this tourney than the amount you will pay on the fee to participate. How bad you want to win something will determine how much you will spend as a participant.

To all the mothers out there happy mother's day!